Rob Pincus and James Yeager on Open Carry - Page 4

Rob Pincus and James Yeager on Open Carry

This is a discussion on Rob Pincus and James Yeager on Open Carry within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Boy, this video has some folks panties in a wad....They are both good instructors, loved and hated. Most folks have never seen what these two ...

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Thread: Rob Pincus and James Yeager on Open Carry

  1. #46
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Boy, this video has some folks panties in a wad....They are both good instructors, loved and hated. Most folks have never seen what these two have. Like them or not they do bring up valid points. I have trained with Pincus, and am looking forward to training with Yeager and I blasted him for the 1911 video and the guy down range.
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  2. #47
    Senior Member Array Vaquero 45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder71 View Post
    Dang it, I wanted XS Big Dots for my Shield, now I find out James Yeager endorses them - so much for that, guess it's Trijicons or something else now.
    If you are going to choose the sighting system on your defensive weapon based on ANYTHING other than the effectiveness of that sighting system, it is plain to see that you carry a gun for reasons other than the defense of yourself and your loved ones.
    How do you propose to check to see that everyone who uses and endorses your sights agrees 100% with you? In fact, given the stances of many companies in this nation, I don't see how you buy groceries or leave the house. Somebody, somewhere will always disagree with you. Get over yourself and find the sight system that is best for you.

    I like Trijicon HD sights, and I don't give a flip if Bin Laden had them on his Makarov. I'm using them because I can hit fast and accurately with them.

    Thanks for proving the point that Pincus and Yeager were making. The only reason to carry a defensive sidearm is to have the means to protect yourself and your loved ones. Everything else is most definitely ass-clownery.
    Slow is smooth.....smooth is fast.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder71 View Post
    Dang it, I wanted XS Big Dots for my Shield, now I find out James Yeager endorses them - so much for that, guess it's Trijicons or something else now.
    He is pretty good with them, and seeing videos of him shooting at 100 yards with them in some older videos is part of what got me to put them on my XD9sc. And I do like them. I think they work well for combat/defensive guns.

    However, I do think Trijicon made definite improvements over the Big Dots with their new HD sights. Not only with the Hi-Vis orange or yellow rings around the tritium front sight but also in their design of the rear sights. I'm definitely going with the Trijicon HD's on my two new M&P's.
    -Bark'n
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  4. #49
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    Please step off the 'Take Everything Too Seriously' soapbox. Does everything have to have a smiley face behind it for people not to get worked up? I am open to other options if they are better, Trijicon HD's among the ones I'm looking at. He really has nothing to do with my decision, but at least I'm not in the market for Big Dots just because he likes them.

    The video of him shooting a target at 100 yards was pretty impressive, and I do like the concept - my reason for not being set on them is the amount of bad reviews, but I'm of the thought that they installed them on their range guns and aren't happy with the results.

    Still don't like their "public service message".


    Quote Originally Posted by Vaquero 45 View Post
    If you are going to choose the sighting system on your defensive weapon based on ANYTHING other than the effectiveness of that sighting system, it is plain to see that you carry a gun for reasons other than the defense of yourself and your loved ones.
    How do you propose to check to see that everyone who uses and endorses your sights agrees 100% with you? In fact, given the stances of many companies in this nation, I don't see how you buy groceries or leave the house. Somebody, somewhere will always disagree with you. Get over yourself and find the sight system that is best for you.

    I like Trijicon HD sights, and I don't give a flip if Bin Laden had them on his Makarov. I'm using them because I can hit fast and accurately with them.

    Thanks for proving the point that Pincus and Yeager were making. The only reason to carry a defensive sidearm is to have the means to protect yourself and your loved ones. Everything else is most definitely ass-clownery.

  5. #50
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    .............. the gun was at slide lock and in a holster when it was taken and was tossed 90 degrees offline from the actual direction of fire ....... Some people think it's okay to have students stand next to targets while they're being shot at, I think it is okay to toss a students gun in the dirt to create a impression about how bad it is to not react to slide lock with something other than "giving up". I can be pretty sure that it made an impression and that the student learned something from it........

    SGB. Well I could not log in as yahoo addresses are not allowed on that site but I would very much appreciate you either posting or PM'ing me the entire post or a link directly to the post so I can read the whole thing instead of a snipet.

    Not knowing what type class it was or who the shooter was, civilian, LE, military and so on this is a little vague to say he did this out of a temper tantrum. If in fact the shooter did not react to slide lock and reholstered an empty weapon again depending on the class and the level of shooter the action taken may have been completely within reason.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    .............. the gun was at slide lock and in a holster when it was taken and was tossed 90 degrees offline from the actual direction of fire ....... Some people think it's okay to have students stand next to targets while they're being shot at, I think it is okay to toss a students gun in the dirt to create a impression about how bad it is to not react to slide lock with something other than "giving up". I can be pretty sure that it made an impression and that the student learned something from it........

    SGB. Well I could not log in as yahoo addresses are not allowed on that site but I would very much appreciate you either posting or PM'ing me the entire post or a link directly to the post so I can read the whole thing instead of a snipet.

    Not knowing what type class it was or who the shooter was, civilian, LE, military and so on this is a little vague to say he did this out of a temper tantrum. If in fact the shooter did not react to slide lock and reholstered an empty weapon again depending on the class and the level of shooter the action taken may have been completely within reason.
    It is NEVER reasonable to remove a students firearm and throw it across a range, for any reason.
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  7. #52
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    SGB. Again I would very much enjoy reading the entire story I would appreciate it if you could post a direct link.

    Dependent on the class and the level of the student many things happen that do not occur in a square range class CCW class.

    There are times when live human beings are staged downrange at the door during a sniper iniated breach. Rifles that have malfunctioned and cannot be cleared immediately are dropped to the ground when transitioning to a handgun, if not attached to a sling of course.

    Students are berated and made to conduct physical exercise in full kit for making a tactical error such as holstering a slide locked weapon. They are made to do reloading drills while doing sit ups, weapons are disassembled and thrown across the range and the shooter is given a time limit to reassemble and engage hostile targets.

    I say all these things because there are different levels of training for different people. Many people train as if their lives depended on it because it does. Pincus and others train some high end people in some high end tactics pushing them to the edge of their endurance and skill level we are not talking about a basic NRA class. Just because you have never seen it done or do not understand why it is done don't knock those who do it.
    NY27 and First Sgt like this.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  8. #53
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    This subject can certainly touch a nerve with some folks and rightly so I guess. My take on it is very similar to the two gents in the video, but I will add that IMO, there are valid concers on both sides of the matter and It's the individual that's the (variable) in each situation that either hurts, or helps the general outlook for the carry method. JMO.
    DontTreadOnI likes this.
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  9. #54
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    1 up on tacmans request,while I don't agree with throwing a students gun to make a point,I will teach thru failure.If a student is careless and does'nt reload,top-off,he needs to learn thru experience on a static range that will get him killed.I don't single any one person out because through experience that will/could cause a student to start and loose the respect he has for the Instructor and let anything he says go in one ear and out the other.I had a student in a carbine/pistol vehicle defense class last August come to the line with an unloaded pistol,because he was offline talking with other students he had forgot to reload his pistol from the previous run,I will look at a students gear as they come on line,I noticed the pistol with no mag and asked him several times"Shooter Ready?",Yeap!,so he starts transitions to his pistol "CLICK",and i'm screaming ah-huh all thru his malfunction clearing till he finally realizes his prob and loads up.This guy has taken 2 more classes with me since then,and I notice that the first thing he does now is go to the safe zone and loads out,I let him fail so that it would be ingrained in his head that he failed himself,and I think it made the better teaching moment.I do have a picture of me pointing at his unloaded pistol while asking is shooter ready,I will actually use this in classroom work.JMTCW.
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  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    SGB. Again I would very much enjoy reading the entire story I would appreciate it if you could post a direct link.
    Here is the complete thread.
    Tactical Forums: Topic: S.W.A.T. Magazine "Bad Habits" Article by Rob Pincus
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, donít give them a tomorrow."

  11. #56
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    Are you actually wanting us to join another forum,but I love it here.O.K,i'm on warrior talk to,but not as much as D.C.
    Quote Originally Posted by OD* View Post

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockrocker View Post
    Are you actually wanting us to join another forum,but I love it here.O.K,i'm on warrior talk to,but not as much as D.C.
    If you have to join to read it, you guys requested the "whole story."
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, donít give them a tomorrow."

  13. #58
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    I just look at it like this, it only takes one cop for representatives of a state to quote them and all of a sudden 'The majority of law enforcement is against this.' (Recently happened in Minnesota and a valuable gun law was vetoed by the governor.)

    With these guys gracing society with their opinion, we now have anti-gunners all over it and soon you'll see 'The majority of professional trainers are against open carry (now with link to video proof), it needs to be banned!'

    Don't think they don't pay attention, I'm sure they have plenty of members on this site reading daily.

    This isn't a good thing, in my opinion.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder71 View Post
    I just look at it like this, it only takes one cop for representatives of a state to quote them and all of a sudden 'The majority of law enforcement is against this.' (Recently happened in Minnesota and a valuable gun law was vetoed by the governor.)

    With these guys gracing society with their opinion, we now have anti-gunners all over it and soon you'll see 'The majority of professional trainers are against open carry (now with link to video proof), it needs to be banned!'

    Don't think they don't pay attention, I'm sure they have plenty of members on this site reading daily.

    This isn't a good thing, in my opinion.
    Yours is not a stretch. Here is a trainer with a few LEOs proving your point:
    Proof that Concealed Carry permit holders live in a dream world, Part One - YouTube
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  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    SGB. Again I would very much enjoy reading the entire story I would appreciate it if you could post a direct link.

    Dependent on the class and the level of the student many things happen that do not occur in a square range class CCW class.

    There are times when live human beings are staged downrange at the door during a sniper iniated breach. Rifles that have malfunctioned and cannot be cleared immediately are dropped to the ground when transitioning to a handgun, if not attached to a sling of course.

    Students are berated and made to conduct physical exercise in full kit for making a tactical error such as holstering a slide locked weapon. They are made to do reloading drills while doing sit ups, weapons are disassembled and thrown across the range and the shooter is given a time limit to reassemble and engage hostile targets.

    I say all these things because there are different levels of training for different people. Many people train as if their lives depended on it because it does. Pincus and others train some high end people in some high end tactics pushing them to the edge of their endurance and skill level we are not talking about a basic NRA class. Just because you have never seen it done or do not understand why it is done don't knock those who do it.
    I'll knock what I choose to knock thank-you very much. I'm familiar with negative reinforcement having gotten my first taste of it at MCRD San Diego and agree it has it's place, however throwing guns because a student did or didn't do something isn't negative reinforcement, it's childish.

    If you wish to read the entire thread I suggest you join that forum.
    Last edited by sgb; May 24th, 2012 at 03:11 PM.
    "There is a secret pride in every human heart that revolts at tyranny. You may order and drive an individual, but you cannot make him respect you." William Hazlitt (1778 - 1830)

    Best Choices for Self Defense Ammunition

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