Rob Pincus and James Yeager on Open Carry

This is a discussion on Rob Pincus and James Yeager on Open Carry within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Thunder71 Well, it does apparently make 60% of felons pick another victim... I get what you're saying, but at the same time ...

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Thread: Rob Pincus and James Yeager on Open Carry

  1. #106
    Ex Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder71 View Post
    Well, it does apparently make 60% of felons pick another victim... I get what you're saying, but at the same time some of it is just possibly incorrect.
    And we all know that criminals do not lie, and are innocent.

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  3. #107
    VIP Member Array Thunder71's Avatar
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    There he is...

    Posted using Tapatalk 2

  4. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaquero 45 View Post
    If you think that parading around in public with your pistol openly carried = end of all threats, you are seriously misguided and tactically deficient. An exposed pistol is not a magic talisman to ward off evil, and thinking that it is will inevitably lead to a complacent mindset. I prefer to have the ability to defend myself with lethal force without drawing unnecessary attention, while maintaining an awareness of my surroundings. If I see a situation developing where I feel that an armed presence may deescalate, I can always uncover. A person who walks around with their weapon exposed all of the time and relies on it to "scare bad guys away" may one day find that bad guys don't think like them. There is at least one instance of an open carrier being robbed of his weapon by a bad guy who was obviously not particularly scared. Depending on "bad guys" to use reason and logic is ridiculous.
    An OC firearm will dissuade the type of threat I am likely to face (casual crime of opportunity). The weapon itself and my training with it defend me against a more insistent threat. I am not complacent, I am aware of my surroundings. I also CC a BUG, infact I ONLY CC when at work. Just from personal (and direct knowledge i.e. my wife) experience, an openly carried firearm deters criminal action against me and mine. CC appears to criminals to be NC, draw to early (at a range they cannot get to you before you finish draw and shoot) and it becomes their word against yours in a possible "brandishment" charge. Wait too long, and you may as well be unarmed.
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  5. #109
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    *Sigh*

    I just want the choice to take off my sports coat at a restaurant and not have the black helicopters and fast-roping stormtroopers come swooping and crashing in and knocking my seafood to the floor.

    Same thing when I get out to put gas in my pickup truck. It would be nice to not have to either remove my firearm or put a jacket on while I'm getting robbed at the pump by the insane gas prices.

    Likewise for some of the regular retail establishments I frequent where I know the owners/managers and they know me and quite frankly, they're GLAD to have an armed citizen as part of the their customer base.

    I personally prefer concealed carry, but again, I'd like to be the one who chooses how I can and should carry my firearm--not some government stooge or some bureaucrat with a badge who can't ever remember making a felony arrest.

    As far as the politics of open carry go? I buy guns to make a political statement. I carry guns to make a personal safety statement.

    JD
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    Author of Above Reproach, the new thriller that unequivocally positions the Second Amendment and concealed carry as our nation's most effective system of homeland and personal security.

  6. #110
    Member Array Ogre's Avatar
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    I OC for various reasons:
    Comfort-no worries about Alabama heat/humidity. Deer concealment is nigh impossible considering my size.

    Ease of presentation-no having to move a shirt or jacket out of the way to draw, no awkward draw angles, no having to shove my huge hands (they don't make gloves to fit me at all) inside my pants for a deep

    Deterance-I don't have to worry about a brandishing charge to have my weapon (thus my status as difficult prey) seen. I am not seen as an easy target of opportunity.

    Because I can legally.

  7. #111
    OD*
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ogre View Post
    .... no having to shove my huge hands (they don't make gloves to fit me at all) ...
    If you are that large, are you sure it's the handgun carried OC that is the deterrent?
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  8. #112
    Ex Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder71 View Post
    There he is...

    Posted using Tapatalk 2
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  9. #113
    VIP Member Array 40Bob's Avatar
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    Open carry does not make you a hard target. If you have a sloppy, beaten demeanor you are a victim. If you are sloppy fat, with you pants falling off, a gun on your hip is not gonna save you.

    You are a hard target because of your demeanor, the way you carry yourself and the way you address the predator that see's you and is going through the target selection process.

    Just because you are big does not intimidate most predators. Just because you have a gun on your hip does not, as a matter of fact when you are big and have a gun it does not always work. It mostly depends on the motivation level of the predator that is present. He may want your Gold Cup or your fancy Taurus.

    I CC because I do not like to show my cards. Part of it is discretion, just because you can does not mean you should. If you think I am a victim, or baiting because I CC, you have a lot to learn.
    My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon. Go big or stay on the porch.

  10. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by OD* View Post
    If you are that large, are you sure it's the handgun carried OC that is the deterrent?
    In my case, probably not LOL....the long braid, leather vest, (and other various "biker" accoutrements) help too. HOWEVER, my petite 4'8" wife has experienced the deterrant value of OC herself w/o my presence. Leaving a painting class downtown one night, she was as usual OCing her Judge PD when approached by a suspicious character...upon sight of her holstered weapon he rapidly veered off, the next day there was a blurb in the local crime sheet about a rapist being arrested after he attacked a lady in the same area....my wife pointed out that it was the same man who had approached her that night! So yeah, I believe that OC does deterr crime-actively.
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  11. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by 40Bob View Post
    Open carry does not make you a hard target. If you have a sloppy, beaten demeanor you are a victim. If you are sloppy fat, with you pants falling off, a gun on your hip is not gonna save you.
    No, it does not make me a hard target, but it does let CASUAL Crime of Oppurtunity thugs know that I am not an EASY, OPPORTUNITY. Those types will generally back off if they perceive a threat. If they back off I have avioded becoming a victim/protected myself...and all without having to even touch my firearm much less having to deal with the legal aspects of after shooting (or drawing and brandishing a concealed firearm).

    You are a hard target because of your demeanor, the way you carry yourself and the way you address the predator that see's you and is going through the target selection process.
    correct, and having the weapon KNOWN and figured into that process, eliminates the "casual crime of opportunity" thug

    Just because you are big does not intimidate most predators. Just because you have a gun on your hip does not, as a matter of fact when you are big and have a gun it does not always work. It mostly depends on the motivation level of the predator that is present. He may want your Gold Cup or your fancy Taurus.
    actually, the type of criminal I am most likely to be confronted with WILL be intimidated by an openly carried firearm. With a concealed weapon, the type of criminal I am likely to encounter would consider me (ok, my wife) to be your typical 4'8" petite weak prey. To paraphrase an old saying her gun is the great equalizer, it puts her on the "dangerous predator" scale instead of the "weak prey" scale.
    I CC because I do not like to show my cards. Part of it is discretion, just because you can does not mean you should. If you think I am a victim, or baiting because I CC, you have a lot to learn.
    I don't think you are a victim, I am just saying that with a CC'd weapon you APPEAR to a casual "out for an easy score" criminal, to be just that, and easy score...until you draw your weapon, at which time you will most likely have to use it...once a weapon is drawn is the time when OC and CC do not matter, they are a both a known threat, the OC'd is known and already considered by the criminal (if they are capable of considering anything)...the criminal that will be deterred by a cc'd weapon MAY have been deterred PRIOR to you having to draw your weapon...I like those odds. If I never have to draw my weapon to defend myself, I will be a very happy man, open carrying MAY help me never have to draw it. In that instance it has done it's job and protected me.
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  12. #116
    VIP Member Array 40Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ogre View Post
    I don't think you are a victim, I am just saying that with a CC'd weapon you APPEAR to a casual "out for an easy score" criminal, to be just that, and easy score...until you draw your weapon, at which time you will most likely have to use it...once a weapon is drawn is the time when OC and CC do not matter, they are a both a known threat, the OC'd is known and already considered by the criminal (if they are capable of considering anything)...the criminal that will be deterred by a cc'd weapon MAY have been deterred PRIOR to you having to draw your weapon...I like those odds. If I never have to draw my weapon to defend myself, I will be a very happy man, open carrying MAY help me never have to draw it. In that instance it has done it's job and protected me.
    Like I said, you have a lot to learn. I don't have a pony tail, tattoo's or other biker accoutrements, I don't need them. I have never had to draw on anyone in 30 years of CC (aside from work). There is much more than an openly displayed weapon to being a hard target. Bart the mall cop has a gun, but is he much of a deterrent?
    My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon. Go big or stay on the porch.

  13. #117
    VIP Member Array Thunder71's Avatar
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    You almost make it sound like you know some big secret... the reality is that most people can go through their entire life regardless of their appearance and never need to draw on anyone, without ever having to think about it.

    Maybe you know something.
    Maybe you're lucky.
    Maybe you're with the other billions of people who will never have to worry about it.

    Whatever the reason, I'm glad you've never had to - and I hope you never do, I mean that...

  14. #118
    Member Array Ogre's Avatar
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    I don't know some big secret, I believe that I am just a normal guy like any other. I do however believe in psychology and perceptions. If you are peceived as being weak you will be targeted as if you are weak. Psychology says that the preservation gene (if there is such a thing) will stop someone from doing something that will end their life (ok, normal non psychotic/drugged people). Would your average mugger/snatch & run/thug rather attack someone looking like a professional football lineman or a petite 4'8" lady? Ok, now add a rather large handgun on the lady's hip? The obvious means of protection at the least puts her (my wife) on the same plane of threat as the large stong man.

    Without the gun, someone attacking the lineman will get hurt, that same person attacking my wife (with out the gun) would likely succeed in doing her harm. Add in a gun, concealed, and she would still be attacked as if she were unarmed, yes she can defend herself AFTER the attack starts, wherein she may STILL be injured even if she does stop the attack. With the OCd firearm the attacker MAY seek easier (safer for them) targets and my wife does not even get a hair mussed on her head.

    MY primary reason for OC is comfort, and I firmly believe that your typical street thug looking for a SAFE FOR THEM target will see the gun and realize that they risk their life attacking me and maybe my meager possessions are not worth the risk of their life.

    Can you honestly say that an open carried firearm does not pose a threat which may stop an attack? Would not a threat of death stop your casual theif? I do not see a CONCEALED pistol (which they do not know you have) doing that.

  15. #119
    Ex Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder71 View Post
    You almost make it sound like you know some big secret... the reality is that most people can go through their entire life regardless of their appearance and never need to draw on anyone, without ever having to think about it.

    Maybe you know something.
    Maybe you're lucky.
    Maybe you're with the other billions of people who will never have to worry about it.

    Whatever the reason, I'm glad you've never had to - and I hope you never do, I mean that...
    Thunder, its not a big secret, its having been there and done that. Its experience, some have it, and some do not. I like you do not want to see people get hurt. I do not want to see them have to use there firearms in a SD, I want to spare them all the crap that comes along with that. There is no glamour in it, only pain, doubt, and people looking at you different. If I have offended you in any way, I am sorry, but the words I speak are the truth I have seen and experienced, thats all nothing else.
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  16. #120
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    Your demeanor and the way you carry yourself is the first step in avoiding a lethal force encounter. This statement could not be any more factual.

    Whether you OC, CC or don't carry at all the way you carry yourself will be the first thing that a bad guy notices and evaluates before deciding whether or not to make you his next victim. As has been stated if you have a gun hanging off your hip, have no ideas of your surroundings, have no knowledge or training in methods to prevent someone from taking your weapon from you or have the knowledge, training, mindset and skillset to identify the threat, draw your weapon all the while physically defending you, your loved ones and your weapon from an attack then you will probably end up on the losing end of the fight.

    It makes no difference to me whether you OC or not but your situational awareness and skill level had better be through the roof simply because you are carrying where everyone can see your weapon. Yes I am sure there are bad guys out there that are intimidated by someone wearing a weapon openly but as I have stated before those are not the ones you have to worry about as they would also be deterred by your size, demeanor or the poodle you are walking. It is the other guys the determined criminal you have to prepare for and look out for and the thing about it is you will never be able to tell whom is who until the attack begins.

    In regards to all the comments about Yeager's appearance. I can't help but laugh everytime someone posts something about it. I just got done with chow and was sitting and chatting with members of the SF group here. Most have beards or goatees, 99% have tattoos including the M/Sgt in charge of operations who has two full sleeves and tattoos on the back of his neck but yet they are full of knowledge, skills and the ability to pass it on to others. They wear everything from t shirts with skulls to one who wears a hello kitty shirt his daughter sent him and none of it has anything to do with their ability to accomplish their mission or pass on there knowledge to others so get over the appearance issues.

    It is not how someone looks it is what is between their ears that counts. Comments like that to me are akin to racism. I don't take a class from that guy because he is black, mexican, gay, has a piercing or long hair or whatever. Yes it is their choice to get tats, where certain clothes and so on but damn do we now have to defend an article of clothing in order to validate what we have to offer to others.

    I have a shaved head, a Paul Sr. mustache, tattoos and ride Harley's does that mean I do not know my job, have a lack of knowledge, skill or cannot teach someone else? The days of Ozzie and Harriet and Mr. Rodger's appearance for the mainstream are over. If you do not like Yeager because of what happened in Iraq, to me it is kind of hard to judge from a youtube video, but that is for another topic, or you think he is to arrogant, cusses to much or does not have the experience or skillset to teach fine don't take a class from him but don't post how you would not train with him simply because he wears a certain shirt or he has tats. It has absolutely nothing to do with the knowledge he has or in his ability to teach it to others.

    Before it is said I am not a Yeager fan boy, I have never trained with him but have spoken to many that have, I will attend some specific classes offered, I have no financial interest or gain any other benefits from this post I simply live in the real world and truly believe everyone has something to contribute to life regardless of race, creed, color, religion or what their t shirt says.
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    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

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