OC in Blacksburg VA, home of Va Tech

This is a discussion on OC in Blacksburg VA, home of Va Tech within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I don't know if this works best on the OC or LEO sub-forums. Please move it, if appropriate. How to Remain Silent when Questioned by ...

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Thread: OC in Blacksburg VA, home of Va Tech

  1. #1
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    Thumbs up OC in Blacksburg VA, home of Va Tech

    I don't know if this works best on the OC or LEO sub-forums.

    Please move it, if appropriate.

    How to Remain Silent when Questioned by the Police - Open Carry - YouTube

    **
    How to Remain Silent when Questioned by the Police - Open Carry

    [video]

    Published on Mar 18, 2012 by jecm21088

    An encounter with the local LEOs while on a walk around town open carrying (CZ 75 P-01 in thigh holster with retention strap). Blacksburg, VA. See FAQ's below.

    SNIP
    **
    Last edited by DaveH; June 11th, 2012 at 06:39 PM. Reason: spacing and formatting
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    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

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    VIP Member Array Badey's Avatar
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    Well done sir!
    Though defensive violence will always be a sad necessity in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men -St. Augustine

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    Nice. He even has a FAQ.

    FAQ's
    Q: What a coincidence that you had a camera! How do you expect me to believe you didn't film this to become a sensation?
    A: I take a camera with me wherever I go, even when I carry concealed. A camera has multiple uses, but there is no better tool for keeping law enforcement accountable. Regardless of the circumstances, when it's the officer's word against yours in a court of law and you have nothing to back up your story, guess who wins.

    Q: Why would you ever open carry?
    A: Not everyone can carry concealed. In states where concealed carry is allowed-- I mean "shall issue" states-- the age at which one may legally open carry may be less than the age at which one may obtain a permit. In Virginia, one may open carry at 18 but may not be issued a permit until 21.

    Q: Why would anyone with a concealed carry permit ever open carry?
    A: Some guns have a large profile and don't conceal easily. Maybe the sub-compact is getting worked on and you only have the range gun on hand.

    Q: Assuming you have the choice to concealed carry legally and open carry legally, why would you ever open carry?
    A: Many people in the United States are ignorant of gun laws and the right to carry openly. Those capable of exhibiting exceptional self-control, courtesy, and respect should consider open carrying to demonstrate to the public that open carry is legal and that not every person with a gun is a freak psycho. That said, I understand the advantages of carrying concealed. I personally would avoid open carrying in any place where I felt the risk of making myself a target was unacceptably high. I open carry more for the sake of education than self defense.

    Q: You realize you're going to freak people out by open carrying, right?
    A: Why are people more afraid of citizens whose firearms they can see than of citizens whose firearms are concealed by a thin layer of clothing? How many criminals who use guns to commit crimes openly carry their handgun to the crime scene? Too many believe that carrying a weapon openly is suspicious behavior. It's not, but without law abiding citizens confronting them by making open carry commonplace, their opinions will certainly never change.

    Q: Didn't you say that you should be courteous if you're going to open carry? After watching how you handled this encounter, you've proven to me that you're a foolish hypocrite who would only ever damage the reputation of gun owners. Shame on you!
    A: I did my best to be courteous to the officers who confronted me while protecting myself at the same time. Feeling threatened, I chose to protect myself through my silence. (See this for more details: Don't Talk to Cops, Part 1 - YouTube.) Had a civilian approached me who was honestly interested in why I was carrying, things would have gone much differently.

    Q: At the very least, couldn't you have explained your business? The police were just doing their job.
    A: Is it really the job of the police to harass citizens who are doing nothing wrong? Should a citizen exercising his constitutional rights even have to explain his business? Yes, I could have said, "I'm just enjoying the second amendment, officer. I don't consent to searches, and I'm going to remain silent as I see fit." I understand that most police officers deserve respect for the nature of their job, but they all swear an oath to uphold their state constitution. Check out section 13 of Virginia's and decide for yourself whether these officers respected theirs. Constitution of Virginia

    Q: I still think you're an idiot. Guns are inherently bad and there's absolutely no reason for you to carry or even have one. There are so many shootings in America, and you still think guns are ok! What is wrong with you?!
    A: Just a little something called liberty. And statistics. The Defensive Gun Use Statistics

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    Senior Member Array Cold Shot's Avatar
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    People will probably get freaked out in Blacksburg and call the cops whenever they see anybody with a gun. It would seem like a hassle to OC.

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    I lived in neighboring Pulaski County for 14 years and OC'd in Pulaski County, Montgomery County, and the City of Radford on a regular basis and no one ever seemed to care. But that may also have been because I'm a mature looking middle age guy typically well dressed and well mannered. Who knows.
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    Wouldn't the officer at least have a right (or lets call it "grounds") to ask for ID to make sure that the person is of legal age to be carrying?

    He said he felt threatened... why? What of the situation that we could see in the video was threatening?

    People starve for attention don't they.

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    Q: Why would you ever open carry?
    A: Not everyone can carry concealed. In states where concealed carry is allowed-- I mean "shall issue" states-- the age at which one may legally open carry may be less than the age at which one may obtain a permit. In Virginia, one may open carry at 18 but may not be issued a permit until 21.

    Hey you hit my reason!



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    Quote Originally Posted by sp3ak View Post
    Wouldn't the officer at least have a right (or lets call it "grounds") to ask for ID to make sure that the person is of legal age to be carrying?

    He said he felt threatened... why? What of the situation that we could see in the video was threatening?

    People starve for attention don't they.
    Thats like pulling a car over to see if the driver has a DL. Needs a reason otherwise.
    Guns don't kill people, Guns save Lives.

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    Member Array pappou68's Avatar
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    Funny, I've been to Virginia many times over the past few years and have never seen an OC.

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    Ex Member Array RayBar's Avatar
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    Why draw the unwanted attention. This deliberate antagonizing just does damage to everyone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RayBar View Post
    This deliberate antagonizing just does damage to everyone.
    Any right not exercised for fear of public reaction is a right lost. Think of the the arts. Think of folk trying to close down exhibits/show/ban book/etc because they were offended/antagonized. Think of the changes made by not being afraid of offending/antagonizing.

    Did anyone buy the June issue of Playboy (for the articles, of course)?

    Did you notice the underlying note of an article in which open carry is presented as the extreme alternative to the “righteous” activity of carrying concealed?

    Think about it.

    Exposure to law abiding carry, OC or CC, is educational.

    I would not have handled it quite the way the guy in video did. But He was fully within his right to do what he did. We CC and OC and wear blaze orange GSL stickers at meeting of local legislative bodies, the Commonwealths General Assembly building, regularly. See July 14th -- “Oh, yes we can!” picnic at a Roanoke County, VA

    Education, lobbying, litigation moves things your way. Caving out of fear of offended/antagonized moves things the antis' way.

    Back before we ( here in Virginia) could Concealed Carry (CC) in a restaurant that served alcohol, I regularly OC in local ones (along I-81).

    On a number of occasions, there was a MWG call made, by another customer. The LEOs showed up. Greeted me. Explained to the caller the law. End of story — except for one case where the caller ended up charged, but that is another story.

    Although we may not have, yet, accomplished the goal of normalizing open carry in every state, we may well have moved the bar a long way toward making concealed carry the new normal.

    We might be winning the culture war.
    Last edited by DaveH; June 13th, 2012 at 09:56 AM.
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    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

  13. #12
    Member Array pappou68's Avatar
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    Not as bad as the post earlier this year with a moron in Florida taunting LEOs at a fishing pier. It might be on YouTube. Within his rights or not, he was an idiot that made it harder for all of us non moronic folk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RayBar View Post
    Why draw the unwanted attention. This deliberate antagonizing just does damage to everyone.
    I suppose if you drove a ford, you wouldn't pull into a shopping center where a chevy muscle car rally was being held, for fear of antagonizing the chevy owners.

    For those who don't wish to OC where it is legal, that's your choice and I'm fine with it. There are many of us who do OC, we don't do it to make a statement, we don't do it to antagonize the anti's and we don't do it to harass the police. We do it because it is comfortable and it is our legal right.
    atctimmy likes this.
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    Distinguished Member Array Ghettokracker71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RayBar View Post
    Why draw the unwanted attention. This deliberate antagonizing just does damage to everyone.
    Forgive me-Are you calling the OPs forum posts and activities on the forum antagonizing people? Or are you saying OC is antagonizing ?

    If you are talking about forum activity- Maybe I missed something? In a different thread perhaps?

    If your talking about OC- The state of Virginia allows OC, the state also has power over the counties/cities/etc to maintain that OC is legal state-wide. What in the world is antagonizing about following the law?

    I could be wrong, and I did not see his actions prior to the above posted video, nor can I see his clothes. Assuming that he is not/did not:
    -Yell/Scream and/or run around acting generally "crazy"
    -Wear obscene, offensive or otherwise "extreme" clothing such as "I WANT TO KILL YOU", et. al
    -Unholstering his weapon and/or generally messing with the weapon or gesturing to it
    -Acting in a threatening manner, verbally or physically
    -Harassing citizens/locals
    -Lapping the street back and forth, back and forth,...
    -et. al


    He did nothing other then obey the law.I find it ridiculous that a law abiding citizen has two LEOs stop, and feels the need to ask him questions.

    Where in the law does it state he must give a reason for carrying upon being questioned? Why do the LEOs have to bother a law abiding citizen?

    OP: How did you hold/use your camera? What kind of camera setup do you us? JW. Most LEOs ask not to be recorded by John Q. Public.


    "To blame a gun for a mans decision is to foolishly attribute free will to an inanimate object"- Colion Noir.

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    Vid shows the power we have and reveils the weekness leo likes to hide
    Guns don't kill people, Guns save Lives.

    If you want peace, prepare for war

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