Is checking for a Lisense a valid reason to detain a person?

This is a discussion on Is checking for a Lisense a valid reason to detain a person? within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Maverick7340 It was written in the Oklahoma open carry law that any LEO can ask to see your permit if you are ...

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Thread: Is checking for a Lisense a valid reason to detain a person?

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick7340 View Post
    It was written in the Oklahoma open carry law that any LEO can ask to see your permit if you are carrying OC. They don't need a reason to stop you and ask. All they need to see is your gun. Once they see you have a permit and are legally carrying then you "should" be free to go.
    This is what I was thinking, that it is a State by State issue. I did think that in the past there had been a U.S. Supreme Court ruling related to roadside drivers license checks such as I mentioned in the OP that prohibited checking licenses for law enforcement purposes. It did allow checks for regulatory purposes. Fine distinction I know.

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  3. #17
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    Now for my issue. November first of this year Open carry, with a license, will become legal in Oklahoma. The Police Chief in one city here has already announced that his department will stop anyone they see openly carrying and ask to see their license
    .

    I'm going against the grain on this one.

    Since the law is new and it will be legal to open carry in Novermber, then technically it would be illegal to open carry without a permit, it would seem to me to be perfectly legal for an officer to ask to see a permit.

    Eventually they will grow tired of it and cease asking, but legally it would be within their dutys to do so at any time.

    I might be right, or I could be wrong.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    .

    I'm going against the grain on this one.

    Since the law is new and it will be legal to open carry in Novermber, then technically it would be illegal to open carry without a permit, it would seem to me to be perfectly legal for an officer to ask to see a permit.

    Eventually they will grow tired of it and cease asking, but legally it would be within their dutys to do so at any time.

    I might be right, or I could be wrong.
    Part in bold makes sense.
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  5. #19
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Look at it this way ........ if enough people open carry, they will soon learn that all of their officers are getting tied up doing nothing but gun checks... and it will stop. Drown them in it.... get everyone that can open carry, to open carry.

    Second, I'm betting someone will file a lawsuit about it.... and win.
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  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodstock View Post
    We all know, "I was only following orders." didn't work at Nurenburg. We also know about lawful orders and that we disobey at our own peril. But LEOs have to obey the law before than obeying a boss bent on harassing law abiding citizens. The individual officer is going to named in the civil suit so CYA.
    I am not advocating following orders that are unlawful. From what I saw of the Oklahoma OC law, there is nothing that says a LEO cannot/will not stop an OC'er purely for the purpose of checking for a carry permit. If the law does not state it, then it is left up to LEO discretion, and not is illegal. If the chief of police sets a policy that all OC'ers are to be check for permit, until the courts say differently, that is what the street cop has to do, if he wants to keep his job.

    Not saying it's right, but it's a fact of life.
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  7. #21
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    I can see them asking for a permit on everyone that they encounter.

    At some point in time, people are going to figure out that they dont want to pay for a permit, and they are going to carry one anyway.

    An officer asking to see a permit would seem to be perfectly legal, simply because having a permit to carry a gun whether openly or concealed is a state requirement. Since officers enforce the law, it would stand to reason that asking for a permit is within their duties.

    It'd be better and easier for everyone if they just did away with the permits and reverted back to Constitutional Carry like a few other states have done, choosing to give teeth to the Constitution that our ruling masters seems to have forgot about.
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  8. #22
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    I dont like to antagonize government officials, but in a case like this, were the Chief LEO outrighly states he will have anyone stopped, that would be my cue to organize a public rally and sit back while a handful of officers ID everyone in the crowd.

  9. #23
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    Simple. Hand the LEO your license and say, "Are we satisfied now?" Then get a t-shirt that says, "Yes, I have an Open Carry license."
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    Or play his game and see how long his officers feel like play it too.
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  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    Agree with SIXTO as to it not being legal without some other justification. A MWAG call will probably be used as justification. If the police chief tells his men to stop anyone they see OC'ing, then it is going to happen.

    If that is the orders they are given, people need to remember, not to blame the LEO on the street who is following orders from his boss. But to blame the chief. I would imagine a couple of law suits with him getting his hand slapped will change his orders.
    If a LEO is just following orders he/she "knows" isn't legal & it is considered a defense.

    What is the difference when a private company orders a employee to do something that isn't legal?

    No one will ever convince me the ones enforcing the laws should ever be exempt from them since Two Wrongs doesn't make a Right. In reality letting our Law Enforcement get away with Lying & breaking the laws they swear to uphold just reinforces the belief they are in fact above the law & not to be trusted.
    Everyone has an opinion & this is just mine sorry if it offends anyone.
    ALSO I don't HATE LEOs I just Hold them to a Higher Standard of the LAW & nothing anyone says will change my opinion on this

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    Quote Originally Posted by mcgyver210 View Post
    If a LEO is just following orders he/she "knows" isn't legal & it is considered a defense.

    What is the difference when a private company orders a employee to do something that isn't legal?

    No one will ever convince me the ones enforcing the laws should ever be exempt from them since Two Wrongs doesn't make a Right. In reality letting our Law Enforcement get away with Lying & breaking the laws they swear to uphold just reinforces the belief they are in fact above the law & not to be trusted.
    Nothing in the law, that I could find, said it was illegal to check a persons permit if OC'ing. Since it does not specifically say they can't, how is it illegal?

    Does it make sense to check everyone who happens to have gun on? No it doesn't. But if the chief wants to waste his manpower that way, until a court tells him he can't, there really isn't much that can be done.
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  13. #27
    Member Array mcgyver210's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    Agree with SIXTO as to it not being legal without some other justification. A MWAG call will probably be used as justification. If the police chief tells his men to stop anyone they see OC'ing, then it is going to happen.

    If that is the orders they are given, people need to remember, not to blame the LEO on the street who is following orders from his boss. But to blame the chief. I would imagine a couple of law suits with him getting his hand slapped will change his orders.
    If a LEO is just following orders he/she "knows" isn't legal & it is considered a defense.

    What is the difference when a private company orders a employee to do something that isn't legal?

    No one will ever convince me the ones enforcing the laws should ever be exempt from them since Two Wrongs doesn't make a Right. In reality letting our Law Enforcement get away with Lying & breaking the laws they swear to uphold just reinforces the belief they are in fact above the law & not to be trusted.

    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    Nothing in the law, that I could find, said it was illegal to check a persons permit if OC'ing. Since it does not specifically say they can't, how is it illegal?

    Does it make sense to check everyone who happens to have gun on? No it doesn't. But if the chief wants to waste his manpower that way, until a court tells him he can't, there really isn't much that can be done.

    You missed the point I went by what you said you agreed with & then said, I didn't say if it was legal or illegal but I am really tired of the excuses being made routinely, they are just following orders.

    So with that said I still stand by my original post.
    Everyone has an opinion & this is just mine sorry if it offends anyone.
    ALSO I don't HATE LEOs I just Hold them to a Higher Standard of the LAW & nothing anyone says will change my opinion on this

  14. #28
    Ex Member Array F350's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    I can see them asking for a permit on everyone that they encounter.

    At some point in time, people are going to figure out that they dont want to pay for a permit, and they are going to carry one anyway.

    An officer asking to see a permit would seem to be perfectly legal, simply because having a permit to carry a gun whether openly or concealed is a state requirement. Since officers enforce the law, it would stand to reason that asking for a permit is within their duties.

    It'd be better and easier for everyone if they just did away with the permits and reverted back to Constitutional Carry like a few other states have done, choosing to give teeth to the Constitution that our ruling masters seems to have forgot about.
    So; having a drivers license is required to drive a car, can LEO stop any car they want and check for a drivers license??????
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    Senior Member Array darbo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Wow, that could get to be quite a nuisance if you are taking a long walk through a heavily patrolled
    location.
    Could create a huge new market for those necklace license things the mall ninjas wear!

  16. #30
    Senior Member Array Chad Rogers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    Now for my issue. November first of this year Open carry, with a license, will become legal in Oklahoma.
    I can't get past the point of 'Why would anybody in their right mind want to open carry if they can concealed carry?'
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