Is checking for a Lisense a valid reason to detain a person?

This is a discussion on Is checking for a Lisense a valid reason to detain a person? within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This is harassment as a means to modify behavior. We all know that common sense would dictate that they would stop someone if they appeared ...

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Thread: Is checking for a Lisense a valid reason to detain a person?

  1. #31
    Distinguished Member Array DefConGun's Avatar
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    This is harassment as a means to modify behavior. We all know that common sense would dictate that they would stop someone if they appeared to be too young so to announce something that is so blatantly obvious is really a verbal warning so you won't be surprised when you are harassed. Its hypocrisy to say that we are a law abiding nation and hold that we revere our laws when we do everything within our power to circumnavigate.
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  3. #32
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chad Rogers View Post
    I can't get past the point of 'Why would anybody in their right mind want to open carry if they can concealed carry?'
    Its best not to spend time wondering why other folks do things. I've never concerned myself with how others choose to carry so long as they don't try to make me change how I carry.

    Now don't get me wrong. I did at one time have a serious problem with why some folks did certain things. Well one thing really.
    I couldn't get past the point of 'Why do fat people insist on wearing spandex. It consumed at least fifteen years of my life. It caused me to fall into dependency on heavy drugs and alcohol. It took ten years of therapy and heavy doses of Thorazine and many painful sessions of electroshock therapy to over come it. I finally learned that people should be free to decide what they do so long as it does not hurt someone else.

    It was a thing of the past until your post dredged up the question again. I thank you for that.

    Does anyone know why fat people wear spandex?

    Michael
    Last edited by mlr1m; June 30th, 2012 at 04:28 PM. Reason: I made an oopsie
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  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chad Rogers View Post
    I can't get past the point of 'Why would anybody in their right mind want to open carry if they can concealed carry?'
    To give the self righteous something to complain about?
    OldVet likes this.
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  5. #34
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  6. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    But if the chief wants to waste his manpower that way, until a court tells him he can't, there really isn't much that can be done.
    If you can rally enough political pressure, get the mayor and/or city council involved.
    That's a pretty big "if" though.

  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    Agree with SIXTO as to it not being legal without some other justification. A MWAG call will probably be used as justification. If the police chief tells his men to stop anyone they see OC'ing, then it is going to happen.

    If that is the orders they are given, people need to remember, not to blame the LEO on the street who is following orders from his boss. But to blame the chief. I would imagine a couple of law suits with him getting his hand slapped will change his orders.
    I disagree. The LEOs are following unlawful orders; more important, not knowing the law is no excuse.

    Law Student Takes Cop To School After Being Illegally Stopped For Carrying Gun Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!
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  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by MNgunner View Post
    I disagree. The LEOs are following unlawful orders; more important, not knowing the law is no excuse.

    Law Student Takes Cop To School After Being Illegally Stopped For Carrying Gun Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!

    This is a very true Post. It seems now days in the new World Order the ones that blindly follow Unlawful/Criminal/Illegal so called orders will get away with it but if nothing else works by saying they didn't know or understand the law or rights they violated.

    The one thing our Out of control Government & its Agents forget is our History, when you push even the most passive people too far they will fight back against Abuse of Power.
    HotGuns likes this.
    Everyone has an opinion & this is just mine sorry if it offends anyone.
    ALSO I don't HATE LEOs I just Hold them to a Higher Standard of the LAW & nothing anyone says will change my opinion on this

  9. #38
    Senior Member Array Dennis1209's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    I don't know about that particular rationalization. You could well be correct, but it has been my understanding
    that the Fish and Game folks regularly check on private property as well, because they are looking to catch
    poachers and trespassers; and an occasional meth lab they might stumble on.
    Yep, in many states games wardens have more authority than LE, as they don't even need a search warrant to enter your home.

    As a matter of fact; LE and a Game Warden had check points in Missouri on the premise of checking for illegal game but, they were checking for drugs and such. Didn't ask for permission.
    I think, therefore I am...

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  10. #39
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    So; having a drivers license is required to drive a car, can LEO stop any car they want and check for a drivers license??????
    Not without a valid reason, which actually brings up a pretty good point.

    Using the DL standard which has already been decided by the courts, it would appear that the Cheif might be in the wrong about telling his officers to stop and check anyone just because they were open carrying.

    It would be easy for a cop so inclined to fabricate an excuse though, and say that someone called in a MWA gun and we need to check it in which case you would have to comply.

    Either way you look at it, it's still a bunch of crap.
    Hopyard likes this.
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  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Im not so sure about the dry humping part, but yes, court is the proper venue.



    Im sure things will vary slightly from state to state, but in the game warden is on private property, he'd be so at the invitation of the owner, or if the property is split by public access such as a road. Otherwise reasonable suspicion would need to exist. Most property owners welcome wildlife officers on their land, as it does nothing but good for them. They chase off the riff raff and often help out with land and wildlife management issues. Here in Ohio, a guy can hunt and fish to his hearts content on his own property without a license. He still needs to obey game seasons, as the actual animals belong to the people. The only exception would be a game farm, and then the animals belong to the farm.
    My understanding has always been that wildlife officers jurisdiction supercedes property rights and that that can go on private property at will to persue perceived law breakers.

  12. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    Its best not to spend time wondering why other folks do things. I've never concerned myself with how others choose to carry so long as they don't try to make me change how I carry.

    Now don't get me wrong. I did at one time have a serious problem with why some folks did certain things. Well one thing really.
    I couldn't get past the point of 'Why do fat people insist on wearing spandex. It consumed at least fifteen years of my life. It caused me to fall into dependency on heavy drugs and alcohol. It took ten years of therapy and heavy doses of Thorazine and many painful sessions of electroshock therapy to over come it. I finally learned that people should be free to decide what they do so long as it does not hurt someone else.

    It was a thing of the past until your post dredged up the question again. I thank you for that.

    Does anyone know why fat people wear spandex?

    Michael
    While I agree with people doing their thing as long as it doesn't hurt anyone, fat people wearing spandex can be hurtful to the eyes and painful to the senses. That's the only reason I never wear spandex.

  13. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chad Rogers View Post
    I can't get past the point of 'Why would anybody in their right mind want to open carry if they can concealed carry?'
    I open carry every day...... But again I'm a former Jarhead so being in my right mind has always been in question

  14. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by GunGeezer View Post
    S

    My understanding has always been that wildlife officers jurisdiction supercedes property rights and that that can go on private property at will to persue perceived law breakers.
    They can, just like any other LEO as long as they have reasonable, articulable suspicion that a crime is being committed on that property.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  15. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    They can, just like any other LEO as long as they have reasonable, articulable suspicion that a crime is being committed on that property.
    I don't want to derail the thread, but therein lies a problem. Some states define the prima
    fascia evidence of hunting so broadly that anytime a Warden sees someone with weapon he will
    have reasonable suspicion. For example, "if a person possesses a loaded hunting implement while at or while entering or leaving an area where a reasonable person would believe the objective was to take wildlife, it would be prima facie evidence of hunting." In short, if you are seen carrying a shotgun in a field it is construed as
    evidence of hunting and would give reasonable suspicion.

    Back to the thread topic now.

    I like Hot Gun's comment in post 39, though somehow I think the powers that be
    won't look at OC and the need to show the license that way. Also, if one thinks about it some
    more, all the must show your license laws would be unconstitutional if we went by the way
    things are interpreted with regard to the DL.

    In short, yup, its a mess and no one can guess what is right by taking a common sense
    approach to it. Sooner or later someone will be challenged or will challenge the requirement,
    and in a decade or so maybe some appeals court will weigh in. Meanwhile, reasonableness
    suggests that Hot Gun's initial analysis (not the one in post 39) is more likely to keep one
    out of the clutches of a jailer.
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  16. #45
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    I dont really see it as a problem Hopyard, but yes, I guess it could be one.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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