longview wa, my first run in with the law - Page 2

longview wa, my first run in with the law

This is a discussion on longview wa, my first run in with the law within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by mkh Ok, it seemed to have worked out well but if your post is accurate then it sounds like you had an ...

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  1. #16
    P95
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkh View Post
    Ok, it seemed to have worked out well but if your post is accurate then it sounds like you had an attitude problem and escalated th situation. Often times a polite relply will tame the situation. What would have been the harm in answering the CPL question? A simple yes or no could have defused the whole situation. Yes, it's your business but common curtesy is a nice alternative.
    -^- I agree....
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  2. #17
    Member Array muddy's Avatar
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    Wow OP bet you didn't think this post would turn on you did you. Its kinda funny how one poster can change the hole tone for a post, any other day every post would have been a good job way to stand your ground post. While I don't care for OC and the drama it can bring I will say good job standing your ground and not backing down to a unknowing cop just because it would have been the easy thing to do. Everyone talks tuff but it takes a guy with big ones to stand up to the law. Not being there I don't see anyway anyone could comment on your attitude as its fairly hard to tell attitude over a key board.
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by muddy View Post
    Wow OP bet you didn't think this post would turn on you did you. Its kinda funny how one poster can change the hole tone for a post, any other day every post would have been a good job way to stand your ground post. While I don't care for OC and the drama it can bring I will say good job standing your ground and not backing down to a unknowing cop just because it would have been the easy thing to do. Everyone talks tuff but it takes a guy with big ones to stand up to the law. Not being there I don't see anyway anyone could comment on your attitude as its fairly hard to tell attitude over a key board.
    This reminds me of the little ditty we were taught when I was learning sailing and seamanship a half a century ago:

    Here lies the body of Michael O'Day
    Who died maintaining his right of way
    He was right - dead right - as he sailed along
    But he's just as dead as if he'd been wrong.


    The OP "knew his rights", but managed to get shop employees, a public servant and himself all riled up when a simple act of covering up his sidearm could have defused the whole situation. You can profess to the whole world that you're right - but make yourself and many others miserable in the process.

    My point is simply this: yes it is important to know your rights, yes it would be nice if everyone understood them as well as you do, but if you're going to make a "stand", I think doing it in a sandwich shop as the OP pursued it isn't going to win over any hearts and minds. Choose your battles wisely - and I don't think the OP did.
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  4. #19
    Senior Member Array GeorgiaDawg's Avatar
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    Personally, if I were in that exact position, I would have rather tucked and deescalated, as others have said, but I'm not a very confrontational person, either. Perhaps complying with the request of the employee while informing them about the law would have been the best tactic, but bravo for being informed and letting others know the law. I'm sure that the Subway franchise you attended is well-informed by now after that run-in.
    "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." - Ephesians 2:8-9

    “The purpose of the law is not to prevent a future offense, but to punish the one actually committed” - Ayn Rand

  5. #20
    Distinguished Member Array ericb327's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkh View Post
    Ok, it seemed to have worked out well but if your post is accurate then it sounds like you had an attitude problem and escalated th situation. Often times a polite relply will tame the situation. What would have been the harm in answering the CPL question? A simple yes or no could have defused the whole situation. Yes, it's your business but common curtesy is a nice alternative.
    I don't think we owe a common courtesy to a 15 self righteous subway employee that felt he had the right of an LEO to ask those questions. I'm betting this was a young man enforcing his agenda. Most states only allow managers or owners to make the call on carry issues in an establishment. Why anyone other than an LEO would approach a an armed person with the intent of provoking an altercation is mind boggling!
    For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill. (Sun Tzu) The Art of War

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  6. #21
    mkh
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericb327 View Post
    I don't think we owe a common courtesy to a 15 self righteous subway employee that felt he had the right of an LEO to ask those questions. I'm betting this was a young man enforcing his agenda. Most states only allow managers or owners to make the call on carry issues in an establishment. Why anyone other than an LEO would approach a an armed person with the intent of provoking an altercation is mind boggling!
    I could agree with you if it had stopped there but the OP took the same attitude ( if you believe his post) into the interaction with the LEO. That implies to me that the OP is the issue not a 15 year old Subway employee.

    And all of this from a newbie with only 6 posts.

    If I am wrong then I apologize to the OP.

  7. #22
    Distinguished Member Array ericb327's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkh View Post
    I could agree with you if it had stopped there but the OP took the same attitude ( if you believe his post) into the interaction with the LEO. That implies to me that the OP is the issue not a 15 year old Subway employee.

    And all of this from a newbie with only 6 posts.

    If I am wrong then I apologize to the OP.
    Understood!
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  8. #23
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    Great job OP. Now next time you go to that subway it will be posted with a no guns sign. I'd tell you how I really feel but then I'd get a 10 point penalty.

    I'm not sure though. 10 points might be worth it.
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  9. #24
    Senior Member Array GeorgiaDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    Great job OP. Now next time you go to that subway it will be posted with a no guns sign.
    I wasn't even thinking about that, but that's a likely result of the confrontation. Another reason why reasonable compliance and courtesy go a long ways towards the cause while unnecessary/discourteous confrontation tends to work against us. This incident could potentially turn a pro-/neutral-gun stance to anti- for the store owner and/or manager.
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    "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." - Ephesians 2:8-9

    “The purpose of the law is not to prevent a future offense, but to punish the one actually committed” - Ayn Rand

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgiaDawg View Post
    I wasn't even thinking about that, but that's a likely result of the confrontation. Another reason why reasonable compliance and courtesy go a long ways towards the cause while unnecessary/discourteous confrontation tends to work against us. This incident could potentially turn a pro-/neutral-gun stance to anti- for the store owner and/or manager.
    That's exactly right. What I find a bit troubling about the original post can be seen in the quote from the OP below:

    Thanx to websites like these I was very knowledgeable and stood my ground,the cop left very irritated because I was right and had a good filling dinner.thanx all for every bit of info u have posted on this subject.helped me out a lot.

  11. #26
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    to start out i did not have attitude one bit.but after i told the employee no i was not a cop and no i wouldnt do what he said, he just got a [edited] look on his face when he said he was goin to get " a higher power" to come deal with me.i shouldnt have been approached in the first place. i was minding my business, goin about my day.here in sw WA there are quite a few people that open carry, and i havent seen or heard of any issues.as far as the attitude.tired as hell, long day at work, and i was just wanting some dinner and to go home. so because people were not aware of the laws and rights i should be uneasy and understanding, when they dont know their rights and mine? shoot at the same time that the officer was talkin to me a mother of 3 with her 3 kids walked in saw the officer talkin to me and went about her day. didnt evern bother to act afraid or scared.her and the kids sat at the table directly in front of me and had their dinner. im not goin to be hiding my firearm and walk on egg shells just because people dont know the laws and are afraid for no reason. but thank you for your opinion. i most definately respect that.
    Last edited by JD; July 5th, 2012 at 02:11 PM.

  12. #27
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    And your adversarial attitude helped the cause of open carry???
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  13. #28
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    people being comfortable is not my problem and not my every day goal.like i said, i was just minding my own business, goin about my day. trying to get some dinner.

  14. #29
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    ya i would like to think so.told them my rights, kept my cool,i wasnt commiting any crimes, and i stood up for myself.as i was leaving i went to the subway employee and appologized to him for causing the scene, then told him that they should be more informed about these types of laws.
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  15. #30
    Senior Member Array Chad Rogers's Avatar
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    Conflict is easy to find...
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