Next time just go to Quizno's.
This is a discussion on longview wa, my first run in with the law within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; You are a police problem...a man with a gun...Gotta wonder what your motive is....openly carry in Washington State and you will have a stressfull encounter ...
You are a police problem...a man with a gun...Gotta wonder what your motive is....openly carry in Washington State and you will have a stressfull encounter with LEO...Why ??
Next time just go to Quizno's.
??? Had you concealed it properly, who would know??? I walked around a crowded amusement park yesterday CCing with no hassle. Given the security presence (unarmed and, from the looks of it, untrained), I have no doubt that if they had noticed, they would have asked me to leave. If you CC properly (not saying you have to CC, but addressing your point above), only you will know you have a rider along. If won't matter a whit what the sheep think, what they can't see they won't worry about.
The rest of what you have posted in this thread goes to maturity, or the lack of it. While nobody here is denying that you have rights, the judicious application of common sense in using those rights will get you farther. In short, you get more flies with honey ...
Me - I would have either covered up or left after the first encounter. To me, acting as you did is simply not worth the hassle.
Frankly, I am surprised this thread is still open.
"I've noticed that everyone that is pro-abortion has already been born." - Ronald Reagan
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny." Thomas Jefferson
You are only paranoid until you are right - then you are a visionary.
The purpose of carrying a firearm is to defend yourself (and those you care about) against danger.
It is not to "educate the public." Let the NRA do that. If your manner of carrying is enraging people, getting law enforcement drawn into the picture, etc., then UR doin it wrong.
Sure, pal. You have "rights." You also have the right to walk into a subway carrying a bloody axe, or a box with the word "bomb" written on it, or a python draped around your neck, and many other things that might confuse and alarm the general public. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.
Personally, I don't really care about you being tired and hungry and whatnot. What matters more is that you've behaved in a way that makes gun owners look bad and reinforces the anti-gun mindset. Staff in a business ask you to cover the gun up, be a lot less trouble to calm 'em down. Leading with your chin with a defiant "no I won't and you can't make me!" is the road to a poor outcome. Which you got.
"It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."
I'm all for OC and for the 2a but folks need to remember that you make friends when you are friendly and you make enemies when you are not. Those friends and those enemies take their opinions to the voting booth. It's as simple as that.
I posted this a while ago and it still rings true. When you OC you need to remember that you are now a poster boy for the Second Amendment. What you do matters.
"For the Lord your God will bless you in all your harvest and in all the work of your hands." Deuteronomy 16:15
I replied earlier in the thread in support of the OP regarding dealing with the 15 year old employee. However, after reading his replies and posts in another thread I think the situation may have gone down a bit different. Baiting? Maybe! I do think if he's serious about defensive carry and his rights; he will take the advice of forum members regarding his conduct. After all he states he is here to learn and values our opinions. Being a noobie to the forum I don't think he was ready for he got in the way of comments. The OP may just handle it a bit different next time.
OP! You should probably change your avatar!
The fact that he remained there even though he knew he wasn't welcome, supposedly because the subway guy didn't formally/officially ask him to leave was where this went off track.
A couple of other points:
This is a site dedicated to carrying firearms for self defense. Most of the sheep in the world would consider most of us to be "Gun Nuts". The fact that half the "Gun Nuts" here think he did something rude or stupid speaks volumes about his actions.
I personally feel that private property rights trump 2a rights. If I owned a subway franchise or any other fast food franchise and felt that I was losing customers because people were open carrying in my store, I have every right to ask them to cover up or leave. My right to sell as many 5 dollar footlongs to as many sheep as possible trumps your right to make a 2a political statement in my store.
Last edited by Rotorblade; July 4th, 2012 at 10:10 AM. Reason: typo
To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the crocodile, hoping he will eat you last - but eat you he will.
OK. You have stated that you have learned much from this forum, and you obviously value the info found here. Now you should realize that this situation should have been handled differently. Go forth and remember what was said about this, and consider your actions in the future. I do hope should a threat ever arise you show restraint and act appropriately. Your avatar does convey your attitude. JMHO
Just because its "not fair " doesn't mean that isn't the way things are. Sorry, things "aren't fair" to gun owners. I'm not anti-OC like alot of folks here. I USED to OC, keywords: Used to. I stopped for a variety of reasons. I saw friends and folks I know illegally or wrongfully charged, arrested or generally harassed. I don't like it, I don't agree with it, I don't think its right. RIGHT OR WRONG, LIKE IT OR HATE IT, it IS the world we are living in.
The anti-gun crowd ignores things like common sense. They ignore things like the frequency of shootings and assualts in "gunfree zones",...They are usually emotionally based, "feel good" types. I've had discussions with them, and watched and listened as they ignore cited and reliably sourced facts. Antis and sheeple are a whole 'nother can of worms. Moving on,...
I see some people almost blaming you for the confrontation while you seem to maintain you were only "minding your business". Sorry, when you strap a visible firearm on you, go out in the "sheep populated" general public, and then visibly read a magazine ABOUT GUNS, somebody might notice (the employee.). Being courteous goes along way.
Just because your "within your rights" doesn't mean you've passed the common-sense test.
Clearly the employee would not have approached you if he was not uncomfortable in the first place. By being self-righteous and rude you just confirmed in his mind that guns/gunowners are "bad". Maybe if you were polite he would have changed his mindset; Probable not, but maybe.
You said your "not a people person". If thats the case, OC is probable not a good idea for you personally. When I OC, I had people that were pro, anti, and "neutral" come up and spark conversations about my sidearm, firearm laws,..etc. its inevitable,... If you are not social and polite no good can come out of the situation not only for the gun community, but maybe for you personally(Like somebody calling the cops on you, ahem.).
I tended to adopt the gray-man approach too. Its just not worth the hassle and no good usually comes out of it. It pains me to "say that". But reality hurts. See if there is a pro-gun advocacy group in your state/area that lobbies the local government for pro-gun laws,get active and involved with them if you want to fight for your rights,... We have the VCDL here, and they have done alot of good for the pro 2a folks in the state of Virginia.
You came out "OKAY". Great! Live and learn. Realize you should have acted different. And move on. Be more careful/cautious and courteous in the future.
I'm not trying to "offend you" or "get a rise" from you. You asked for opinions. Heres mine.
"To blame a gun for a mans decision is to foolishly attribute free will to an inanimate object"- Colion Noir.
There is an old saying that has an astounding amount of merit in the situation. Choose your battles wisely. There are sound reasons to act in certain fashions, and behave in certain manners, and when one pushes outside of those boundaries, one might in fact be choosing a battle, knowingly or not. The behavior thereafter will dictate the outcome of that battle, more battles, and possibly the war. Choose your battles wisely.
I both open carry and concealed carry, so don't try to hoist me on that petard. I also live in a rural area in a state that has had OC state-wide for many years."Another such victory over the Romans, and we are undone." Pyrrhus
So am I, so let's keep it civil.Frankly, I am surprised this thread is still open.
By the way, methinks you are wasting public resources (LEO time) if you continue acting in such fashions. That is selfish IMHO.
Last edited by Rock and Glock; July 4th, 2012 at 07:27 PM.
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"He went on two legs, wore clothes and was a human being, but nevertheless he was in reality a wolf of the Steppes. He had learned a good deal . . . and was a fairly clever fellow. What he had not learned, however, was this: to find contentment in himself and his own life. The cause of this apparently was that at the bottom of his heart he knew all the time (or thought he knew) that he was in reality not a man, but a wolf of the Steppes."