We have become more "aware" of a law : Kansas

This is a discussion on We have become more "aware" of a law : Kansas within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; An Attorney General opinion came out .... at the request of some of the major cities, and the answer was NOT what they wanted to ...

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Thread: We have become more "aware" of a law : Kansas

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    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    We have become more "aware" of a law : Kansas

    An Attorney General opinion came out .... at the request of some of the major cities, and the answer was NOT what they wanted to hear. It has in the past always been ... cities could BAN open carry. However, a law passed in 2007 ... seems to have skipped right by everyone.

    The AG's opinion was .... cities CANNOT regulate open carry of a CC licensed person, which we basically knew. Laws had been modifiied so that cities (in their objection to CC laws) couldn't start arresting people for printing, accidental exposures, etc.... start arresting them for open carry ... so it in essence made open carry legal if you had a CC license.... although it didn't sink in to a lot of people.

    But, this AG's 'opinion', really said.... besides that they cannot regulate open carry by a person under the CC laws and who has a CC license, because they are regulated by the state, but could ONLY regulate the manner people could open carry who did not have a CC license.

    A person was arrested for open carry : and now this is coming to light .......

    Statute | Kansas State Legislature

    Kansas Statutes :
    Chapter 12, Article 16, Section 124 :

    12-16,124. Firearms and ammunition; regulation by city or county, limitations.
    (a) No city or county shall adopt any ordinance, resolution or regulation, and no agent of any city or county shall take any administrative action, governing the purchase, transfer, ownership, storage or transporting of firearms or ammunition, or any component or combination thereof. Except as provided in subsection (b) and subsection (a) of K.S.A. 2011 Supp. 75-7c11, and amendments thereto, any such ordinance, resolution or regulation adopted prior to the effective date of this 2007 act shall be null and void.

    (b) Nothing in this section shall:
    (1) Prohibit a law enforcement officer, as defined in K.S.A. 22-2202, and amendments thereto, from acting within the scope of such officer's duties;

    (2) prohibit a city or county from regulating the manner of openly carrying a loaded firearm on one's person; or in the immediate control of a person, not licensed under the personal and family protection act while on property open to the public;

    note : Personal & Family Protection Act .. is the CC laws, which one part is referred to also in paragraph (a) .... KSA 2011 75-7c-11.

    continues @ link . .................................


    What is your take on this ? "How" do you take it... to many of us, it appears pretty clear cut. They cannot "prohibit" open carry, only regulate "the manner" someone open carries.
    catt101 and DoctorBob like this.
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    VIP Member Array paaiyan's Avatar
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    The "manner" of open carry? Sounds like they can't prohibit it, but they can make you walk on your hands while open carrying.
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    Member Array catt101's Avatar
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    It sounds to me like they can't prohibit it. But, they can do like CA and mandate that you can't be loaded.
    or, they can mandate it has to be painted bright red and you have to wear a sash proclaiming you are a legal carrier!!!
    Can't wait to see how Overland Park handles this... Not too sure I want to be the test case though!

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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    "Welcome! Sure you can open carry in our fair city... you must duct tape your weapon onto the top of your head! Easy peasy! Enjoy your stay in_____________"
    It could be worse.
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    Distinguished Member Array bigmacque's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paaiyan View Post
    The "manner" of open carry? Sounds like they can't prohibit it, but they can make you walk on your hands while open carrying.
    Wording and phrasing like this is what gets a good law in trouble. This is probably worded this way because the sponsor of the bill, or the office that was left holding the short straw when the responsibility to actually put into words what the law makers were trying to do, just didn't have the ability to word this any differently. They probably would like to see things like holsters with retention straps rather than loosely carried and sticking out of a jeans pocket, but they got this because by the time the communication filtered down from the ones that got the chance to get this law approved to the schmuck actually writing the law, the intention was lost in the communication. Ever play that game where you sit in a circle with about 20-25 people, and one person whispers a phrase in the ear of the person next to them, and then the phrase gets passed all the way around the circle to see what it sounds like when it gets back to the original speaker? Kind of like that.

    I vascilate somewhat on getting laws like this written. I'd like to see the NRA develop a panel of people that can advise on the actual wording of law, but then the NRA's number 1 lobbyist here in Florida had too much influence on the writing of our SYG law. We have a great law, but it's too easily abused because of the wording. Some folks -- a drug dealer, with his second shooting, gets off for shooting someone in the middle of a drug deal because he claimed SYG? uh-uh -- have abused it and that denigrates the whole process and also endangers other opportunities for liberty to survive.

    Just MHO.
    I'm in favor of gun control -- I think every citizen should have control of a gun.
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    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catt101 View Post
    It sounds to me like they can't prohibit it. But, they can do like CA and mandate that you can't be loaded.
    or, they can mandate it has to be painted bright red and you have to wear a sash proclaiming you are a legal carrier!!!
    Can't wait to see how Overland Park handles this... Not too sure I want to be the test case though!
    Pls read it again .... "the manner of carrying a loaded firearm". And, it did not say handgun, which the distinction of weapon, firearm, and hangun vs rifle vs shotgun, etc. is rather clear in our laws.

    The AG's position ... went into some depth .. and citing other laws as well, that any regulation has to be "reasonable" and per "commonly accepted methods used" .
    I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
    Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."

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    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paaiyan View Post
    The "manner" of open carry? Sounds like they can't prohibit it, but they can make you walk on your hands while open carrying.
    According to the original post they would only be able to regulate the manner of open carry for folks who did not have a license.
    But, this AG's 'opinion', really said.... besides that they cannot regulate open carry by a person under the CC laws and who has a CC license, because they are regulated by the state, but could ONLY regulate the manner people could open carry who did not have a CC license.
    Does this mean that my Oklahoma permit allows me to open carry in every city in Kansas now? I live within a few miles of Kansas and ride there on my bike every week. Be nice not to have to worry about individual cites gun laws if my concealed carry weapon becomes accidentally exposed.

    Michael

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    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
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    Cool. I wish the MO AG knew how to read legislation.

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    Member Array catt101's Avatar
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    Opps! Sorry about that EagleKS. My fingers got ahead of my brain on that one!
    I stand corrected... We just have to paint it bright red and wear that sash then!!!

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    VIP Member Array Smitty901's Avatar
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    Ok so in order to open carry the weapon must be unloaded, have firing pin or sriker removed. it must also be painted bright orange and worn lower than the knee cap.
    It allows them room to do anything they want.

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    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
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    see post #6

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    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    Does this mean that my Oklahoma permit allows me to open carry in every city in Kansas now? I live within a few miles of Kansas and ride there on my bike every week. Be nice not to have to worry about individual cites gun laws if my concealed carry weapon becomes accidentally exposed.

    Michael
    CC license, you are covered anyway if your gun becomes accidentally exposed. They in essence made open carry legal for a CC holder..... this was done to prevent cities that didn't like the idea of CC licenses and carrying, of trying to play "gotcha" stuff with CC holders.... ooops, you gun was showing so that was open carry.... blah blah blah. So, they modified the law and in essence made open carry legal if you have a CC license. It's been that way about 3 yrs.

    The problem is, law enforcement and a whole lot of people, including the cities didn't realize it and catch that fact. ... not until this year. Now, they realize it..... after the AG gave his opinion and explained it to them.

    Most of Kansas is legal open carry ..... but the cities, just as you say, has been the issue. But given you have a CC license... exposure should not be an issue. That doesn't mean if you were open carrying in some city, they still wouldn't want to harrass you and detain you and want a test case. Topeka, our capital, put legal open carry on the books there....
    I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
    Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."

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    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Well.... the most reluctant city..... has surrendered to the state law. This is here, about like getting Bloomberg to say he's for open carry in NYC. This will get the attention of other towns / cities across the state rather quickly, I suspect.

    KAKE - Mobile Site

    Wichita To Allow Open Carry Of Guns Tuesday, July 10, 2012

    Wichitans will soon be able to carry their guns in plain sight.

    The Wichita City Council passed an amendment to its open carry ordinance to comply with state law. Now gun owners will be able to carry a gun in the open as long as it's in a holster and on safety.

    "I would look at it as a safety thing. With open carry, it's more of a safety issue to me then a right or something," said Bullseye Shooting Range owner Mike Relihan.

    The open carry law went into effect in Kansas in 2007. Wichita continued to ban it until this week when the Attorney General issued an opinion saying the city had to comply with state law.
    joker1 likes this.
    I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
    Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."

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    Member Array catt101's Avatar
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    Great for Wichita!!!! Now can we get Overland Park on board???
    joker1 likes this.

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    VIP Member Array joker1's Avatar
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    Stand by for a rash of "the gun just went off" when barney fife and company are checking to see if your safety is on. So does this rule out revolvers, GLOCKS, and other pistols without a stupid manual safety?

    Good news for Wichita. Wish we could get pre-emption laws on the books.
    Pistology likes this.
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