Here's a good video for all of us. - Page 2

Here's a good video for all of us.

This is a discussion on Here's a good video for all of us. within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by msgt/ret I have never understood that Law Enforcement daily go about open carrying yet some people see a law-abiding citizen open carrying ...

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  1. #16
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msgt/ret View Post
    I have never understood that Law Enforcement daily go about open carrying yet some people see a law-abiding citizen open carrying and it is a cause for immediate panic, terror and a call to 911.
    Yup. Me, I take note of the tool, clothing, demeanor and basic behavior, just as I would with anyone else. I'm looking for one or more "bells" to go off, from the indicators. If none, then there's little to worry about. By itself, a firearm is just another feature of that person's "look" that day, and only one indicator of intention and potential threat. I would be far more worried about a person with "the walk" and demeanor that is suggestive of a person at a tipping point combined with an internal mental six-pack that's a few cans short.

    How it should be:
    • Caller: "OMG, there's a person with a GUN in the store ... and he looks really threatening ... *gasp* ..."
    • Dispatch: "Is the person behaving violently or threateningly toward anyone, other than sitting there wearing a firearm? You do realize, that in this state the carrying of firearms is lawful and acceptable."
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
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  2. #17
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    Thanks for the video Mike. Thankfully, like you I live in an area where OC is an accepted practice and the police don't bat an eye over it.
    Freedom doesn't come free. It is bought and paid for by the lives and blood of our men and women in uniform.

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  3. #18
    sgb
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    VIP Member Array sgb's Avatar
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    Exercise a right in public and you're baiting cops ................. never mind the cops are the ones in the wrong. Got to luv that messed up kind of thinking.
    TN_Mike, luvmy40, oneshot and 1 others like this.
    "There is a secret pride in every human heart that revolts at tyranny. You may order and drive an individual, but you cannot make him respect you." William Hazlitt (1778 - 1830)

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  4. #19
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    I'm confused. Whenever its a lone person OC's and records a video, it's characterized as Cop-baiting OC-er looking for his 15 minute of fame. Why not the same disdain here????

    Bottom line - you should be able to act lawfully without police intervention.

    FYI - a while back in Georgia a guy was stopped OC and the cop reacted by pulling a gun on him. After about a year and a lot of legal wrangling, the department received OC/CC training. Much improvement.

    If you want to comply with unlawful requests, I won't fault you. However, if others don't want to comply with unlawful requests, don't fault them.

  5. #20
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgb View Post
    Exercise a right in public and you're baiting cops ................. never mind the cops are the ones in the wrong. Got to luv that messed up kind of thinking.
    Yep.....I'd sue for public harassment if it was me.
    TN_Mike likes this.

  6. #21
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PEF View Post
    I'm confused. Whenever its a lone person OC's and records a video, it's characterized as Cop-baiting OC-er looking for his 15 minute of fame. Why not the same disdain here????
    I'd say it's a matter of how the engagement is undertaken. Think of the numerous instances of recorded encounters where the person being stopped is continually interrupting the LEO to speak over him, speaking in tones beyond merely sounding assured and confident (instead sounding fairly aggressive), and so on. There's a way to handle these things, such as that group in the Steak 'n' Shake in MO that was recently posted. And there's being beyond assertive, with (sometimes, in these vids) a rude and apparently provoking manner of doing it. For me, the former doesn't seem provocative or "baiting" in any way, whereas the latter can often smell exactly like that. IMO, it's all in how you earn your respect in an encounter.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  7. #22
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    Good outcome! I loved the way kids continued to be kids - they could have cared less.

    Hopefully this results in some internal training on OC in the LEO offices.
    TN_Mike likes this.


    The tyrant dies and his rule is over, the martyr dies and his rule begins. ― The Journals of Kierkegaard

  8. #23
    VIP Member Array Smitty901's Avatar
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    Now contrast the out come with that of Milwaukee Chief of Police and the Mayor. Even though it is legal In Wisconsin and the have been well informed of that.
    Chief of Police Fylnn open stated in public that he did not care what the law was ,he was the law. His Quote was loud and clear. He made this statements when talking about the court ruling on open carry.
    "My message to my troops is if you see anybody carrying a gun on the streets of Milwaukee, we'll put them on the ground, take the gun away and then decide whether you have a right to carry it," Flynn said. "Maybe I'll end up with a protest of cowboys.

    To this day he stands by his statement. And his officer have and are carrying it out.

  9. #24
    Senior Member Array DPro.40's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    I'd say it's a matter of how the engagement is undertaken. Think of the numerous instances of recorded encounters where the person being stopped is continually interrupting the LEO to speak over him, speaking in tones beyond merely sounding assured and confident (instead sounding fairly aggressive), and so on. There's a way to handle these things, such as that group in the Steak 'n' Shake in MO that was recently posted. And there's being beyond assertive, with (sometimes, in these vids) a rude and apparently provoking manner of doing it. For me, the former doesn't seem provocative or "baiting" in any way, whereas the latter can often smell exactly like that. IMO, it's all in how you earn your respect in an encounter.
    Unlike the recent individual OC'er getting confronted, this exchange appeared to be mutual in respect. Given and issued. I'm proud of the group in how they conducted their business. That's how to educate and spread the word that law abiding citizens are not criminals. This was also displayed to the other patrons of the restaurant. Glad they all got their Steak and Shake, one of my favorites. Even in the refusal to comply, it was not confrontational. That's the way to do it.
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.
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  10. #25
    VIP Member Array Smitty901's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericb327 View Post
    I see a bunch of people making a conscious decision to bait cops. They handled themselves well and respectful but its still baiting IMO.
    I missed something. Your going about your day with some friends breaking no laws. A few LEO's who are breaking the law interrupt you and your family. Try to get you thrown out of a restaurant. And some how your baiting the LEO.
    Time for a reeducation camp for me.
    luvmy40 and oneshot like this.

  11. #26
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    I am sure glad this thread is staying focused on the positive impact of the video posted. Right?
    DPro.40, msgt/ret and archer51 like this.


    The tyrant dies and his rule is over, the martyr dies and his rule begins. ― The Journals of Kierkegaard

  12. #27
    Senior Member Array DPro.40's Avatar
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    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by Rock and Glock View Post
    I am sure glad this thread is staying focused on the positive impact of the video posted. Right?
    The nights still young.
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.
    Ronald Reagan

  13. #28
    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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    While I agree with the right to open carry and realize that the people involved did no wrong the fact that we here agree with them influences our opinions. If this was a peaceful orginized gathering of a group of people who were doing something that was within their rights but we disagree with, this board would be lit up like a Christmas tree.

  14. #29
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    I believe in a law abiding citizen's right to OC. Just because I don't doesn't mean I am against it. Now for the video (I watched a few times). In Missouri, when a LEO asks a adult for identification...there is no right to refuse and certainly handing the officer a business card giving your stand on OC is not the same.

    I know...I know, "Why should we have to show identification just because we chose to OC?" I don't think you should have to, but Missouri State Law says that if a LEO asks for it....you give it. If you don't...that is considered obstruction of justice. I guess you could try and change that law, but you could just "bite the bullet" and show it.

    If a officer saw me walking my dog and decided to ask for my identification....I would have to show it. I could not get by with saying, "You don't like my dog...even though it is not against the law, " or "You don't like where I walk him...even though it is not against the law."
    DPro.40 likes this.
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  15. #30
    Distinguished Member Array ericb327's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty901 View Post
    I missed something. Your going about your day with some friends breaking no laws. A few LEO's who are breaking the law interrupt you and your family. Try to get you thrown out of a restaurant. And some how your baiting the LEO.
    Time for a reeducation camp for me.
    Yeah, 20 plus OCers just happen to be dining together at the same place. It was planned! What other reason other than to call attention to the cause. I'm all for OC, do it myself. However, I don't want to meet with 20 other OCers over an Iced Mocha with hopes of encountering LE to make them look bad as was portrayed in this video. As baiters go they were definitely the least obnoxious.

    Remember, there may come a time when these officers are interviewing you or testifying at your self defense trial.
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