Here's a good video for all of us.

[archer51]

Yeah, 20 plus OCers just happen to be dining together at the same place. It was planned! What other reason other than to call attention to the cause. I'm all for OC, do it myself. However, I don't want to meet with 20 other OCers over an Iced Mocha with hopes of encountering LE to make them look bad as was portrayed in this video. As baiters go they were definitely the least obnoxious.

Remember, there may come a time when these officers are interviewing you or testifying at your self defense trial.

If they were all wear breast cancer awareness t-shirts instead of guns, would they still be baiting the police? After all they planned it, to all wear the same shirts, to draw attention to them.

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[21bubba]

If they were all wear breast cancer awareness t-shirts instead of guns, would they still be baiting the police? After all they planned it, to all wear the same shirts, to draw attention to them.

Is that what theses folks wanted? To draw attention to themselves. I thought the whole point of carrying open or concealed was to be the "gray man"

[ericb327]

If they were all wear breast cancer awareness t-shirts instead of guns, would they still be baiting the police? After all they planned it, to all wear the same shirts, to draw attention to them.

I see your point but its still apples and oranges in my book.

[ccw9mm]

I am sure glad this thread is staying focused on the positive impact of the video posted. Right?

It's still (apparently) in the stage of defining our terms, so that communication might be possible.

[PEF]

Yeah, 20 plus OCers just happen to be dining together at the same place. It was planned! What other reason other than to call attention to the cause. I'm all for OC, do it myself. However, I don't want to meet with 20 other OCers over an Iced Mocha with hopes of encountering LE to make them look bad as was portrayed in this video. As baiters go they were definitely the least obnoxious.

Remember, there may come a time when these officers are interviewing you or testifying at your self defense trial.

The acceptance of both open carry and concealed carry has be the result of many parallel grass roots efforts. Much of the effort has focused on raising public awareness.

Regardless, I fail to understand why a group of people who share a common interest (self defense and open carry) and who meet at a local establishment are "baiting." That really makes no sense to me.

Open carry means "open." For all to see. If you are doing something for all to see, and the cops appear, that is baiting?

I don't get it.

[Rock and Glock]

If a officer saw me walking my dog and decided to ask for my identification....I would have to show it.

Yep, they're Profiling your dog

[Rock and Glock]

It is not baiting, and that sub-topic is DONE. We are NOT debating OC, so if you can't stop yourself, leave before I show you the door. A few of you are on very short strings right now, and I will just deal with you and ask questions later, if you understand. If you don't understand, leave now and save me the trouble.

I tried to say this nicely before, and a couple of you just have to keep punching the button. I can play that game to, but my button is permanent.

Thank you! Carry on!

EDITED TO ADD:

When we originally opened this forum, I added a notation that this was not the place to "debate the virtues of open carry", essentially making it a protected forum. I have, since then, debated whether this was the right thing to do since we did not place any restrictions on other forums.

Open carry is a controversial subject, particularly when those that do OC do so specifically to garner attention to the practice. While we still discourage arguments over this topic, we will no longer offer "protection" for those who's practices invoke controversy. We now all stand on even ground but we will not hesitate to issue infractions for those that cross the line in comments and rebuttals.

If you can accept these changes, we will continue to welcome you to this forum. If not, there is another forum out there that may be more to your liking....

[TN_Mike]

Thank you Rock and Glock.

[Pistology]

Another reason to go to Steak 'n Shake. Exactly the place I was thinking of when I commented on the earlier OC post, "In sight, it must be right". Thanks to the manager for standing up for his customers and his right to conduct private business.
From citizen to dispatcher to cops, someone should learn better to assess a true emergency or matter of concern to those who protect and serve society.

[mwhartman]

Thankfully, the matter did not escalate. I found this a year or so ago

Know Your Rights When Dealing With Police Officers

What makes a police officer powerless? A well informed citizen who knows their rights!

Police officers hate to hear these words:
"I don't consent to a search."

"Am I free to go?"

"I'm going to remain silent."

Your rights during a traffic stop, five things you should know about protecting yourself from the police.

entire article can be found here: Police Officer Search, Police Rights, Traffic Stop Rights, Police Searches, My Rights

[FireStar M40]

Spirit 51 said in part..

In Missouri, when a LEO asks a adult for identification, there is no right to refuse.....

Missouri State Law says that if a LEO asks for it.... you give it. If you don't... that is considered obstruction of justice.

If a officer saw me walking my dog and decided to ask for my identification.... I would have to show it.

So OK, my question is.... "If I'm walking my dog (or doing something else that's LEGAL) and I don't have any 'IDENTIFICATION' on me (like I do quite often when I'm in my neighborhood), how does one "Show Identification" when they're NOT carrying any..!!..?"

In your "dog walking" example above, cops would have a pretty hard time arresting me on "obstruction of justice" for not showing them identification when I'm NOT carrying any.

FireStar M40

[atctimmy]

I watched this a couple weeks ago....good ending.

But..But..They didn't give their IDs to the officers and submit to being searched. I thought you were of the opinion that OCers should show ID and answer a few simple questions so those cops could "keep people safe on the streets"?


OK back to the real point of the thread. What buffoon would walk up to a table full of families waiting for dinner and start pestering them with questions?

WHY DIDN'T THEY GET THERE AND OBSERVE THE SITUATION? WHY NOT ASK THE MANAGER WHO WAS CAUSING ALL THE TROUBLE?

When the management said "no one" they could have just gone away. Instead they need to pester a guy who is sitting calmly waiting for his food to arrive. Seriously, a monkey could have walked in there and realized that these people were just having dinner.

[FireStar M40]

Eric B 327 said in part...

Remember, there may come a time when these officers are interviewing you or testifying at your self defense trial.

"Remember, there may come a time when YOU are interviewed or testifying at THEIR self defense trial."

Yep... cops ought to remember that sometimes THEIR actions with (and toward) the general public might tip the scales of Lady Justice. It doesn't take much for someone NOT to have heard a thing... let alone seen anything to begin with!

Don't forget... the shoe fits both ways.

FireStar M40

[mprp]

Isn't public ignorance wonderful? It's gotta be a bit embarassing showing up with the whole cavalry then rolling up on the table with all of these horrible criminals. I think if I had a say in the LE's actions, one of them would be to detain the caller for about an hour to educate them on the proper use of 911.

[nedrgr21]

In Missouri, when a LEO asks a adult for identification...there is no right to refuse and certainly handing the officer a business card giving your stand on OC is not the same. ... I don't think you should have to, but Missouri State Law says that if a LEO asks for it....you give it. If you don't...that is considered obstruction of justice. I guess you could try and change that law, but you could just "bite the bullet" and show it.

Never heard of that, could you please provide the statute reference.


As to this vid vs the other, it's a lot less stressful when you've got 15 other people backing you up than when you're on your own - don't care who you are. We also don't know anything about how the encounter went with the guy that got singled out or what was said at the table, and the LEO's seemed more relaxed and less confrontational than the one in the other thread.