Here's a good video for all of us. - Page 4

Here's a good video for all of us.

This is a discussion on Here's a good video for all of us. within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by nedrgr21 Never heard of that, could you please provide the statute reference. MRS 571.121 , for the CHL at least....

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  1. #46
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nedrgr21 View Post
    Never heard of that, could you please provide the statute reference.
    MRS 571.121, for the CHL at least.
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  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    MRS 571.121, for the CHL at least.
    That statute is completely irrelevant in this case. That is specific to licensed concealed carry. Is there a requirement to have ID on you at all times? Is there a specific statute that speaks to open carry in any way or is open carry legal because it is not specifically prohibited?
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  3. #48
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    My nephew belongs to a group here in Mi. more commonly refered to as Michigan open carry,


    Michigan Open Carry, Inc. | Nothing to hide!

    .

    1
    To have meetings/events/gatherings in parks and smaller meetings in restaurants such as the one in the video.

    2
    To have a dialogue with other people who they meet while there, who are more often than not firearms enthusiasts as well, about the facts pertaining to CC AND OC.

    A lot of them are not aware of the fact that its legal in Mi. and their understanding of CC is shrouded in mystery as well.
    They(general populous) walk away with a greater understanding of what firearm rights are in this state because of these get togethers

    3
    To reafirm the facts of OC with LEO should they show up.


    Here is a small bit of a letter from something they call the LEO packet;

    Taken from here....
    LEO Packet | Michigan Open Carry, Inc.
    LEO Packet


    Download printable version here. Dear Chief or Sheriff: Attached is information on the legality of the open carry of a handgun in Michigan. The open carry of a handgun has increased in Michigan in the last year as more and more citizens are becoming aware of its legality. It is our hope that this information is helpful to you, and that you will take the time to review the information and inform your officers on the legality of the open carry of a handgun in Michigan. We also hope that you work with your 911 dispatchers in regards to asking some simple question when they receive a call of a “person with a gun”. If you have questions please talk with your prosecuting attorney or you can contact me via email or phone for more information. We thank you for your time and consideration in this regard and appreciate the difficult job you all do. Sincerely, PURPOSE: To provide guidance in calls for services that involves a person who is openly carrying a pistol in a holster.
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  4. #49
    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock and Glock View Post
    Yep, they're Profiling your dog
    Being a Basset Hound she usually keeps a low profile.
    msgt/ret and DPro.40 like this.
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  5. #50
    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireStar M40 View Post
    Spirit 51 said in part..



    So OK, my question is.... "If I'm walking my dog (or doing something else that's LEGAL) and I don't have any 'IDENTIFICATION' on me (like I do quite often when I'm in my neighborhood), how does one "Show Identification" when they're NOT carrying any..!!..?"

    In your "dog walking" example above, cops would have a pretty hard time arresting me on "obstruction of justice" for not showing them identification when I'm NOT carrying any.

    FireStar M40

    I am not a LEO. I just know quite a few. I would imagine that if they were really interested in who you are....they can detain you and use computer search to find your ID. If they really want to know who you are....they can find out. It will just cost you time and trouble, unless you have a warrant. If you are carrying either OC or CCW you would want your ID, it seems to me.
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  6. #51
    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nedrgr21 View Post
    Never heard of that, could you please provide the statute reference.


    As to this vid vs the other, it's a lot less stressful when you've got 15 other people backing you up than when you're on your own - don't care who you are. We also don't know anything about how the encounter went with the guy that got singled out or what was said at the table, and the LEO's seemed more relaxed and less confrontational than the one in the other thread.
    When the information comes from a judge (who was once a LEO and then DA)...you think HE would know. Good enough for me. I could go to the State site and search ID, but then I could just let YOU do it.


    Start here: http://law.findlaw.com/state-laws/mi...ouri+Statutes#
    Last edited by Spirit51; July 8th, 2012 at 11:33 PM.
    A woman must not depend on protection by men. A woman must learn to protect herself.
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  7. #52
    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
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    I think he should know, but then again .... the LEO should know as well. Judges get overruled on a regular basis; so no, that's not an absolutely reliable source. In what context did the judge rule that not providing an ID is obstruction of justice - how about a case # or name of the defendant? You could also be misinterpreting the judge's ruling or how his ruling was being applied. Did the judge's ruling apply to the State of Missouri or the local town you happened to be in? The person that brings such a claim to the table is responsible for citing a verifiable source - insisting that someone else prove that your statements are correct is rude; especially given the scope of MO revised statutes and the interaction btwn state and local ordinances in MO. If I look and can't find it that should be proof that it doesn't exist, right? The current video was taken in Liberty, MO and the OC'ers refused to provide ID and the LEO's walked away. That seems to contradict your interpretation of what a judge may have said.

    I have read, in the past, MO Revised Statutes 571 - the weapons statutes - and have never read such a requirement. Despite what I wrote earlier, I reviewed the use and possession statutes and nowhere does it mention the requirement for ID. I also checked the MO open carry website and it affirms the position that no ID is required.

  8. #53
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    Post deleted so I don't get "spanked".................
    Last edited by Crowman; July 9th, 2012 at 03:00 AM.
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  9. #54
    Distinguished Member Array ericb327's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crowman View Post
    The open carry people did not make the officers look bad, the officers did it all on their own. You also forget the officers acted unprofessional by attempting to get the manager to ask the open carry people to leave.

    I believe that if one wants to exercise one of their constitutional or a legal right there is no way it can be the so called "baiting" (no matter how a person does it) Legal is legal period.

    Look at it this way. People have a legal right to go to church and are never hassled. While some will say this is not the same I question why isn't it the same. Simply put if someone legally open carries and is not breaking any other law they should be left alone, period.
    I'm sorry, I can't reply. I have received an infraction worth 5 point for expressing my opinion about the video. It appears I hijacked the thread. So I no longer have an opinion that matters!
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  10. #55
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mprp View Post
    Isn't public ignorance wonderful? I think if I had a say in the LE's actions, one of them would be to detain the caller for about an hour to educate them on the proper use of 911.
    911 dispatchers, too. It's perfectly understandable that someone unfamiliar with the lawful nature of carry would call in to report someone with a weapon. It's also utterly unfathomable why dispatchers don't even inquire as to whether the person sighted is engaging in any actual threatening behavior. Mere sight of a gun does it. I'll never understand that one. IMO, dispatcher training needs an update on this one point, as badly as do police/sheriff depts. Fix that, then we'll be well on the way to fixing the ignorance that's causing these problems, nipping such understandable calls in the bud. Over time, the other 300M people can be educated as they get used to an overtly armed society.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  11. #56
    VIP Member Array mprp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    911 dispatchers, too. It's perfectly understandable that someone unfamiliar with the lawful nature of carry would call in to report someone with a weapon. It's also utterly unfathomable why dispatchers don't even inquire as to whether the person sighted is engaging in any actual threatening behavior. Mere sight of a gun does it. I'll never understand that one. IMO, dispatcher training needs an update on this one point, as badly as do police/sheriff depts. Fix that, then we'll be well on the way to fixing the ignorance that's causing these problems, nipping such understandable calls in the bud. Over time, the other 300M people can be educated as they get used to an overtly armed society.
    Good point indeed. That would probably weed out about 99% of the calls where the LEO doesn't know what he or she is getting into when they first arrive. It probably wouldn't take much for dispatch to inform the caller that it's legal and unless they're doing something threatening, then it's probably ok. The other 1%, dispatch can tell the officer to just look for the caller under a corner table, in the fetal position in a puddle of pee. Officers may have to start carrying lollypops to hand out.
    msgt/ret likes this.
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