My thoughts on interaction with LEO in a MWAG call

[oneshot]

Always be polite and reasonable with LEO and most interactions will be a non-incident.

I find that when the officer is given the due respect, even if its nominal to start,that a person in blue should be given, they are more prone to relax and give it right back to me, even if it resulted in a citation.

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[Ceolas]

I assume that in TN, since OC is legal, you do NOT need a permit to OC? If that's the case, the LEO shouldn't really even be entitled to ask for any sort of ID or permit, no?

Tennessee is not a traditional open carry state. However, Tennessee is a shall-issue state that issues a carry permit that allows both open and concealed carry. OP is incorrect.

OpenCarry.org - State Information For Tennessee

[ericb327]

I've always wondered if these 'incidents' that occur between OC'ers and Police are caused by a lack of knowledge on the part of the LEO. They certainly should be educated in all areas of the law they set out to uphold but apparently is not the case. However, I don't think a confrontational attitude gets the message across very well. You seem to handle it the proper way and helped to educated the officer. Hopefully he goes back and tells the others.

If never been stopped for OC but if I was I'd be tempted to simply show my permit and be on my way instead of being confrontational and going through all the aggravation I see these guys video recording and going on and on trying to prove a point. However, after being stopped, I would probably drive over to the police station and try to politely educate the chief on what the OC laws are that his officers seem to be unaware of. I think this method may yield longer lasting results for everyone involved.

I will say that my interaction with local police may go better than normal because I know most of them through calls to them and tips when I was Managing a large liquor store in northern Kentucky. I have also been quite active in getting a local drug dealer out of the community. Could have been a factor!

[Rock and Glock]

Excuse me, but then they ought not to be sworn officers enforcing those laws they know nothing about! People get killed in that manner every day all around the US. Yep, lets not "give the cops hard time."

As I said in another post, the amount of study and reading and analysis required to stay current in an officers multiple jurisdictions can be significant. They will focus on the most important and those areas where they have the greatest need. This is not even including other jurisdictions that might have an effect on their specific situation (NR Permits, etc.).

I believe they should be given the benefit of the doubt and treated with respect to start with, and work from that point forward showing mutual respect. That's just my personal opinion, but I am a fairly patient guy that usually doesn't get too excited.

If you have several examples of deaths caused by incomplete or inadequate knowledge of the law by LEO's ("every day around the US") please share a few.

[glockman10mm]

^^^^Love to hear it too!^^^^ But me thinks this is the beginning of new inet folklore.

[Dennis1209]

I always try to be courteous when dealing with others. Be they LEO's or the folks working at walmart. Just how I was raised.
On the issue of police not being expected to know every law. I agree with that statement as well. They do not need to know all the laws. They do need to know each and every law they attempt to enforce though.

Michael

Yep. Seems to me if you get arrested it's your right to be informed of the charge, title, section and number of the infraction? I guess they could hold you X number of hours without being charged so the PD can do their home work?

Don't want to debate OC vs. CCW, to each their own but, I like to avoid attention and scrutiny and like going about my day hassle free.

Being polite, non threatening and courteous goes a long way with all human interactions, save BG encounters. That's my perfect world anyway.

[Weeg]

21 posts for saying 'sugar works better than vinegar"



.

[TN_Mike]

I assume that in TN, since OC is legal, you do NOT need a permit to OC? If that's the case, the LEO shouldn't really even be entitled to ask for any sort of ID or permit, no?

That's a negative Ghost Rider, you must have a valid permit, and have it with you at all times if carrying regardless of the mode of carry. No permit carry in TN is a no-no. But we in the TFA are working to get Constitutional carry passed.

[ericb327]

That's a negative Ghost Rider, you must have a valid permit, and have it with you at all times if carrying regardless of the mode of carry. No permit carry in TN is a no-no. But we in the TFA are working to get Constitutional carry passed.

Kentucky is also pushing for Constitutional Carry. What happens to our reciprocity if it passes?

[varob]

Yep. Seems to me if you get arrested it's your right to be informed of the charge, title, section and number of the infraction? I guess they could hold you X number of hours without being charged so the PD can do their home work?

Don't want to debate OC vs. CCW, to each their own but, I like to avoid attention and scrutiny and like going about my day hassle free.

Being polite, non threatening and courteous goes a long way with all human interactions, save BG encounters. That's my perfect world anyway.

This isn't exactly true. LEO's have radios and the ability to call a supervisor to clarify what laws may have been broken... If any?

Draggin people in for laws they've not broken is a huge liability to there department and jurisdiction.

[suntzu]

As I said in another post, the amount of study and reading and analysis required to stay current in an officers multiple jurisdictions can be significant. They will focus on the most important and those areas where they have the greatest need. This is not even including other jurisdictions that might have an effect on their specific situation (NR Permits, etc.).

Sorry but I will not excuse a LEO for not knowing gun laws in his AO. I am pretty darn sure that if I am caught doing something illegal with a firearm and did not honestly know the law then I will be arrested and prosecuted. No pass on this one LEO's. Laws about OC and CC'ing are pretty straight forward for the most part. And if they do not know the law then the should not be stopping someone to try and figure it out if they were correct or not. That is either a fishing expedition, A LEO trying to do his own thing, or just incompetence. As far as MWAG calls if they do not know the law maybe they can have time to brush up on it while they are enroute....again, LEO's have a tough job, so do Doctors and other professionals.

[atctimmy]

If you have several examples of deaths caused by incomplete or inadequate knowledge of the law by LEO's ("every day around the US") please share a few.

I once saw Glockman10mm shoot a guy right in the big toe for snoring too loud. He was confused about local noise pollution statutes. It was terry-errible like. I nearly wet myself. : )

[Rock and Glock]

Suntzu: I didn't ask for you to excuse anyone. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[suntzu]

Suntzu: I didn't ask for you to excuse anyone. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

No need to apologize. I am just saying if LEO's are not expected to know the law then how can a citizen? LEO's have zero problems arresting folks wwho honestly don't know a law.

[mcp1810]

Sorry but I will not excuse a LEO for not knowing gun laws in his AO. I am pretty darn sure that if I am caught doing something illegal with a firearm and did not honestly know the law then I will be arrested and prosecuted. No pass on this one LEO's. Laws about OC and CC'ing are pretty straight forward for the most part. And if they do not know the law then the should not be stopping someone to try and figure it out if they were correct or not. That is either a fishing expedition, A LEO trying to do his own thing, or just incompetence. As far as MWAG calls if they do not know the law maybe they can have time to brush up on it while they are enroute....again, LEO's have a tough job, so do Doctors and other professionals.

Unfortunately it is not always that easy. Assignments change. If a guy has been working exclusively traffic, say collision reconstruction, for the last ten years and now makes Sergeant and gets kicked to a patrol shift how much time do you give him to learn everything a patrol officer should know? Do you really want him looking up the laws on his smart phone while he is responding through your neighborhood? Some times they have to show up, stabilize the situation and then sort it all out.