Kid in Birmingham OCing Rifle - Not Guilty on All Counts! - Page 4

Kid in Birmingham OCing Rifle - Not Guilty on All Counts!

This is a discussion on Kid in Birmingham OCing Rifle - Not Guilty on All Counts! within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Harryball Do you believe you should carry a rifle around on your back for self defense. Speaking of which, can anyone give ...

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  1. #46
    VIP Member Array Smitty901's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    Do you believe you should carry a rifle around on your back for self defense. Speaking of which, can anyone give me a valid reason for carrying a rifle for self defense while in a urban environment.
    The correct question would be why not? It is not the person carrying that has created this environment. It is the legal system that has for many years refused to do it's job that has brought us to this. Those officer had plenty of real crime to deal with they chose to ignore that and have some big boy fun with the kid.
    Give us back our streets and watch the gun fade away. LE stop trying to enforce laws you do not have on us and enforce those you do. Stop trying to force you p[politics on us because you carry a badge.
    Why should of duty LEO's be allowed to carry?
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  2. #47
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    Do you believe you should carry a rifle around on your back for self defense. Speaking of which, can anyone give me a valid reason for carrying a rifle for self defense while in a urban environment.
    IT DOES NOT MATTER WHY! We can all argue if it was wise of him or a stunt but the fact is it is LEGAL!

  3. #48
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    Speaking of which, can anyone give me a valid reason for carrying a rifle for self defense while in a urban environment.
    A valid purpose, or one you'll agree with?

    Can't speak to the latter, as it'll depend on your willingness to accept that people have varying reasons for doing what they're doing, with only the criminal having criminal purposes in mind.

    As for the former, there are plenty of reasons a person might choose to carry a firearm (rifle or any other): one's right to do so; transporting it to another place; showing other citizens that we're not completely under the yoke yet, and need not be if we simply choose not to be; defensive purposes; on the way to a range or other place for shooting it; on the way to meet a potential buyer. Reasons why a person might choose a rifle for self-defense purposes in an urban environment: same rationale one would choose one in a "country" environment; not having a sidearm; being too young to carry a sidearm lawfully. I'm sure there are many other acceptable, reasonable and lawful purposes, though I've only mentioned several.

    UNLAWFUL CRIMINAL ACTIVITY is what's bad. Other activity, quite simply, isn't harming anyone. It caused just as little harm 40yrs ago when people walked across town with their rifles slung across their backs as it does now. The major difference now is the absolutist, intolerant approach to quashing activities, which is really what this "trial" was about. Glad the jury saw it clearly enough to think rationally about what was really being done. Kudos to them.
    TN_Mike likes this.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  4. #49
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mlr1m
    Do you believe that the Government should be able to arrest or otherwise harass a person when they have broken no laws?

    Michael
    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    Do you believe you should carry a rifle around on your back for self defense. Speaking of which, can anyone give me a valid reason for carrying a rifle for self defense while in a urban environment.
    For your first question. What I believe a person should be able to do is not the proper question when it comes to allowing Government intervention. What I like or dislike should not matter. What should matter is the law. Is there a law that says what he did is prohibited?
    More importantly should what you are anyone else thinks or likes be grounds for an arrest? Or should we follow the law?

    On the second issue needing a valid reason. I have to agree that the groups that believe rights are conditional are growing in numbers each year. That the Government should place greater limits on them as well as demanding a person have a 'good' reason for wishing to exercise them.

    On to a valid reason this young man might have had to carry a rifle slung over his shoulder while walking. I posted this in an earlier post on this thread.
    This case hit home with me because as a youngster I also carried a rifle or shotgun slung over my shoulder or in my hand when walking through town on the way to the river for a bit of hunting or plinking. We were not trying to make a point or bait any policemen. We were just going out to do some shooting. We would also ride two up on our motorcycles strapped down with firearms on more distant trips down the highway when we got older.
    Is that good enough reason? Should I be prohibited from doing it because some government agency, you or some other person might think its not a valid reason?

    More importantly. Do I need a reason, whether its valid or not? Or, am I free to do it simply because it is my right and unless my exercising of that right harms another person it is no one else's business?

    Michael

  5. #50
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    One of the great advantages of OC, here in Virginia, is the 18 y.o. can carry.

    Wish that we could get the minimum age for a CHP reduced to 18.

    BTW, sometimes you will see younger kids also OC, when with parents. parents.
    Badey and WHYDAH like this.
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    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

  6. #51
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    As to "valid reason" or "need."

    See my rant at #312 on Us and them... - Page 7

    As much as the antis demand that there must be a demonstrated "need", I wonder if some of us aren't buying into their mantra, to some extent.

    Here in Virginia (like many other States), we got rid of some of the prior restraint on RKBA when we got rid on "may issue" -- i.e., we no longer a need to prove a "valid reason" or "need." to carry.
    TN_Mike likes this.
    Μολὼν λαβέ

    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

  7. #52
    VIP Member Array jbum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pgrass101 View Post
    I have stated before that while Open carry is legal in Alabama, but if you choose to do so you will most likely wind up on the ground with a Glock Q-Tip. You will most likely win in court but you will have to pay the price until then.
    I have never understood this mentality....If you truly feel this way you need to be screaming how dang wrong it is for LE to harass people who are not breaking any law. Next thing you know the whole country will be like San Francisco where they can stop and search you for no reason at all. All the cop has to say is I saw a bulge in their pants, purse, bag, etc. How would you feel about that?

  8. #53
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pgrass101 View Post
    I have stated before that while Open carry is legal in Alabama, but if you choose to do so you will most likely wind up on the ground with a Glock Q-Tip. You will most likely win in court but you will have to pay the price until then.
    Care to offer your feeling about this? Are you willing to just accept as the way life is? Are you saying that those who exercise their rights should expect the Government to abuse its power?

    Or do you believe that the citizens should expect their Government to obey the laws of the land? Your answer while accurate did not make it clear which side of the issue you are on. Accept that you will be bullied if you do exercise your rights. Or make the bully stop what he is doing?

    Michael

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    Care to offer your feeling about this? Are you willing to just accept as the way life is? Are you saying that those who exercise their rights should expect the Government to abuse its power?

    Or do you believe that the citizens should expect their Government to obey the laws of the land? Your answer while accurate did not make it clear which side of the issue you are on. Accept that you will be bullied if you do exercise your rights. Or make the bully stop what he is doing?

    Michael
    I believe that the officers should know the law and that a law abiding citizen should not be harrassed if they are not breaking the law. I was just stating that if you choose to open carry in certain cities in Alabama be prepared to go to court. In certain other cities (Double Springs AL for example)you can walk around with an AK47 on your back and no-one will blink an eye, but you try that in Huntsville or B'Ham Alabama and you will definatly have a run-in with the local police.

    It is our duty to uphold our rights and to use those rights, but we need to be aware of what might happen and be prepared for it. Mainly be polite, comply with an officers orders (they had a legitimate reason to ask for ID in the case mentioned to verify the kids age) and to have a good lawyer on speed dial.
    A real man loves his wife, and places his family as the most important thing in life. Nothing has brought me more peace and content in life than simply being a good husband and father.

  10. #55
    VIP Member Array Smitty901's Avatar
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    Wow I am amazed.
    I don't think anyone would approve of a LEO stopping a black man just because he is Black walking the the street because the LEO does not like it
    How would you feel if a LEO stopped you wife or daughter and questioned them about being hookers just because they walked to the store? Taking their names and putting in a report why they stopped them.
    But you have no problem with a LEO stopping someone that is not breaking any law, in many case taking them to the ground, Taking their legal property.
    So if a LEO barks no madder what even if he is breaking the law we must summit and let it go.
    Can you then at least tell me where you would draw the line.
    Just walking into your home in the middle of the night looking for legal fire arms to take.
    Think it can'y happen it has.
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  11. #56
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    All I am saying is that you need to be prepared to accept the consqueces of your actions.

    I am not saying that it is just or fair or even legal. If they asked for ID I would give it to them, if they asked for me to put the rifle down while we talked I would. I will also sue them if I need too.

    When the Freedom riders boarded their busses and headed down south they knew that they might pay with their lifes for expressing their rights.

    Freedom is not free, I'm just saying to be aware of the potential cost of upholding your rights.
    A real man loves his wife, and places his family as the most important thing in life. Nothing has brought me more peace and content in life than simply being a good husband and father.

  12. #57
    VIP Member Array Smitty901's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pgrass101 View Post
    All I am saying is that you need to be prepared to accept the consqueces of your actions.

    I am not saying that it is just or fair or even legal. If they asked for ID I would give it to them, if they asked for me to put the rifle down while we talked I would. I will also sue them if I need too.

    When the Freedom riders boarded their busses and headed down south they knew that they might pay with their lifes for expressing their rights.

    Freedom is not free, I'm just saying to be aware of the potential cost of upholding your rights.
    The point is there should not be any consequences for a legal act. Anyone that tries to hand out their own brand of punishment for a legal; act should be jailed on the spot.
    That is why we are in the shape we are in, LE has been doing what ever feels good for so long they now ignore the law all together.

  13. #58
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pgrass101 View Post
    All I am saying is that you need to be prepared to accept the consqueces of your actions.

    I am not saying that it is just or fair or even legal. If they asked for ID I would give it to them, if they asked for me to put the rifle down while we talked I would. I will also sue them if I need too.

    When the Freedom riders boarded their busses and headed down south they knew that they might pay with their lifes for expressing their rights.

    Freedom is not free, I'm just saying to be aware of the potential cost of upholding your rights.
    Thanks for clearing this up. We are in agreement. On the Freedom riders while there were many in that group whose only desire was confrontation and turmoil. Most were there in the hopes that what they were doing would end the illegal actions of the government. I feel we have both types in our pro-gun groups as well. But. like the majority of the freedom riders I believe that most of those making stands on gun rights hope what they are doing will end the illegal arrests.

    Michael
    Last edited by mlr1m; July 13th, 2012 at 04:23 PM. Reason: I made an oopsie
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  14. #59
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    IT DOES NOT MATTER WHY! We can all argue if it was wise of him or a stunt but the fact is it is LEGAL!

    It may be LEGAL, but it is still STUPID. We are not in the back woods here. A pistol holstered is one thing. The rifle is a show of STUPIDITY.....and in society is DOES MATTER.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......

  15. #60
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by suntzu
    IT DOES NOT MATTER WHY! We can all argue if it was wise of him or a stunt but the fact is it is LEGAL!
    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    It may be LEGAL, but it is still STUPID. We are not in the back woods here. A pistol holstered is one thing. The rifle is a show of STUPIDITY.....and in society is DOES MATTER.
    And society is free within reason to voice their disdain for stupid things. Right up until their right to protest his actions might cause him harm.
    The Government does not have that freedom. It must act within the law using only those powers granted it under those laws. The people and society can up to a point punish stupidity. The Government cannot.

    Michael
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