Kid in Birmingham OCing Rifle - Not Guilty on All Counts!

This is a discussion on Kid in Birmingham OCing Rifle - Not Guilty on All Counts! within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Harryball So we throw out common sense.... "Common sense" is another term that the brady bunch and other antis have co-opted. To ...

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Thread: Kid in Birmingham OCing Rifle - Not Guilty on All Counts!

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    So we throw out common sense....
    "Common sense" is another term that the brady bunch and other antis have co-opted.

    To be sure I want to throwout what they have corrupted the term to mean. But there is a place for common sense -- in the original meaning of the term.

    Wish I could come up with a good term to use in its place.

    Anyone have any good ideas?
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  3. #92
    Distinguished Member Array ericb327's Avatar
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    I open carry. I have also criticized those who bait cops. I also criticize CCers with CC badges (Mall Ninjas) and the like. I completely support their right to do it though. Our opinions on OC vs CC seem so one sided. Can we agree if I left my house in a tactical vest with an AR 15 extra mags, glock strapped in a tactical thigh holster, knife, tac lite, and black duty pants, I would be within my right to do so in some states.

    Would I like a goof? Yes!

    Would I be inciting panic? Yes!

    Am I hurting our cause for securing our 2A rights? Yes!

    Will I likely have an encounter with LE? Yes!

    Will I be made fun of by other CCers and OCers? Yes

    Are we wrong for criticizing these guys? Nope!

    There is such thing as common sense. Although it is my right to carry all of the above, I will not.
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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    And IMO there is the problem with OC. Not necessarily the carrier, but the people around. As to why you might want to care. They vote....
    I know the vote ..duh LOL. But I guess the question is what is your solution to the problem of folks that OC that you feel are baiting the cops? Or just being obnoxious? And let us not forget that there are some overzealous LEO's out there and it is not the OC'ers fault at all that they get caught up in the news. Again, what is the solution? The only one I can think of is if the government stays off their backs. If they do then there will be no You Tube moments. Like a lot of these nimrods, all the government official has to do is drive by, makes sure they are not causing any trouble and leave.

    And it seems most of the time the idiot wins in court which tells me that the government is causing the news...not the moron. (see how how used different terms of endearment for these idiots!)

  5. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    So we throw out common sense and are no longer being the grey man. Is that what Im hearing. All the rest of carrying responsible and not making a seen and all of that goes out the window. The rest of this forum must be a shame, seeing how strapping on a rifle and walking down an urban street is now seen as a sensible act. Sorry guys I can not get on board with that kind of thinking.
    As I suspected, you have dismissed what I said.

    Just because someone is openly carrying, either a handgun or a rifle, does not mean that they lack common sense. And being the "gray man" is not a requirement. It is a choice that some make. If you are uncomfortable open carrying, fine. Don't open carry. But do not presume that just because someone else is comfortable with it makes them any less intelligent or lacking in common sense than you or anyone else. It also doesn't make them less responsible.

    And you keep pointing out that this wasn't in the country. I really fail to see what difference this makes at all. A rifle is a more effective self defense weapon. Not as easily portable but certainly more effective, especially in an urban environment. And honestly, in Detroit, I would surely feel more secure with a rifle slung across my back that just having a handgun with me.

    Open carry is legal. Handgun or long gun. Period. The fact that there are jumpy people out there who have been brain washed into believing that anyone with a gun in public must be a bad guy unless they have that magical badge on their chest, don't get me started on that, is the real problem in this country.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    Its only words and an exchange of ideals. I would be very surprised if any of the members that disagree with me, would want harm to come my way. Just because we disagree on this subject doesnt mean anything in the overall picture.
    Completely agree.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pgrass101 View Post
    I have stated before that while Open carry is legal in Alabama, but if you choose to do so you will most likely wind up on the ground with a Glock Q-Tip. You will most likely win in court but you will have to pay the price until then.

    Another reason qualified immunity needs to disappear. If that Glock Q-Tip cost the cop his child's college fund, a few might be less apt to rain all over somebodies rights.
    Last edited by Rock and Glock; July 14th, 2012 at 10:31 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TN_Mike View Post
    The fact that there are jumpy people out there who have been brain washed into believing that anyone with a gun in public must be a bad guy unless they have that magical badge on their chest, don't get me started on that, is the real problem in this country.
    Agree. Generally speaking, people tend to get more comfortable with things they see every day and have learned to understand is a reasonable and frequent occurrence. If anything, I'd think that the less the "authorities" are cried to by the general populace to be saved from the evil guns they see everywhere, and the less the MWAG pipeline is allowed to subscribe to the fear-mongering by blindly supporting it with such tactics as were roundly shot down via this trial, the sooner we'll move toward improved understanding and accommodation by the general population.

    Clear, firm leadership by law enforcement heads in this area can combine with a calm, cool response by 911/dispatch on such calls to go a long, long way toward stopping the MWAG fear-mongering merry-go-round we're currently on in altogether too many places in this country.
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  8. #97
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    Some gun owners just don't have the courage to come out of the closet. They've lived under the boot of liberals so long they're afraid to oppose them no mater what.
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    Since there its no question that the tool has the legal right to carry a rifle, this really its more of a first amendment issue than second amendment. So if our tool had been treated the same way for wearing an offensive t-shirt would we still be having this discussion? I forget which opinion it was but SCOTUS plainly said the first amendment is not here protect popular speech. It is the unpopular speech that needs protection. Yes I call him a tool. But tools have rights too.
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  10. #99
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    Read these before posting in this thread again.

    Open carry is a controversial subject, particularly when those that do OC do so specifically to garner attention to the practice. While we still discourage arguments over this topic, we will no longer offer "protection" for those who's practices invoke controversy. We now all stand on even ground but we will not hesitate to issue infractions for those that cross the line in comments and rebuttals.

    While our policy has been changed and we now encourage the posting of threads regarding open carry, we will continue enforcing our rules regarding civility within the forum. This forum will not allow the endless debate of "us vs them". We are all gun owners that believe in the right to carry, either openly or concealed and it's time that we start understanding that we are all on the same side. We are all responsible gun owners that follow the law whether we agree with them or not.
    If you have come to this sub-forum to whine and fuss against OC just leave now, or you'll be having a private chat with me.
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  11. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgb View Post
    Some gun owners just don't have the courage to come out of the closet. They've lived under the boot of liberals so long they're afraid to oppose them no mater what.
    Yup!

    I just got back from a picnic in a park that the local authorities were leading folk to think was posted. This was after we threw down the gantlet.

    Over 100 folk there, most armed, the majority OCing.

    The press (TV and paper) were there. The LEOs drove by. Nothing happened -- except that the local citizens got information that it was legal to carry OC or CC in the park.

    That is really the whole point.



    For more back ground see thread at: July 14th -- “Oh, yes we can!” picnic at a Roanoke County, VA

    I will update that thread more info as I see the press reaction.
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    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

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  12. #101
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    For me it is not about open carry. The whole issue for me is did the government overstep its legal authority. Nothing else matter to me. I don't care if the kid was legally carrying a firearm or wearing a white strapless wedding dress while moonwalking. If there is no law prohibiting it the Government should butt out.

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  13. #102
    Member Array brazildsm's Avatar
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    im definately 100% in agreence with you on that.
    Quote Originally Posted by carracer View Post
    Wow! Lots of Alabama open carriers would probably disagree with that statement. I trust that you will be attending the Alabama Gun Rights Statewide Event. Alabama Gun Rights Statewide Event. | Facebook

    So now the shoe is on the other foot and their needs to be a suite against Birmingham for this incident. Just as should be in Alabama if it should happen.

  14. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveH View Post
    One of the great advantages of OC, here in Virginia, is the 18 y.o. can carry.

    Wish that we could get the minimum age for a CHP reduced to 18.

    BTW, sometimes you will see younger kids also OC, when with parents. parents.
    He could have OC'd a pistol at 18, just couldn't have purchased it from an FFL. I believe the law is federal, so the same in VA as in MI.

  15. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    He didnt break any laws I understand that. I even posted the update when he was brought to trial. Personally, I didnt think the city had anything that could stick. However, this isnt the country, its a burb of detroit, People get really nerved up about RIFLES slung across someones back. Good, bad or indifferent, this kid was a tool.

    Dont worry no one will force anything on me. As it pertains to this situation, im pretty well set in my ways....
    I honestly get what you are talking about but unfortunately it is impossible to have this discussion with the anti 2a folks. If we were to concede anything to the anti weapon crowd, it wouldnt be enough. If we agree that carrying a long gun down main street isnt a good idea and they remove that, next they will say well, you really dont need those 20-30 round magazines do you? Next it will be something else. Their main goal is to remove all weapons rights and access. We are forced to fight for every right we have no matter if we think it is a good idea or not because once you give an inch, a mile is expected.
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    I'm not big on lawsuits, but this is a case where I hope they get nailed for huge damages. If it were just some ignorant (of the laws) cops, it would be one thing - but the fact that this made it all the way to the point that 6 jurors were in a position to decide this kid's fate is inexcusable.

    Somehow a clear message has to be sent to everyone involved. Money talks.

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