new permit, ONE BIG QUESTION

This is a discussion on new permit, ONE BIG QUESTION within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; understood, the idea is if your life is ALREADY being threatened - maybe even just verbally, i've had people threaten to kill me AND be ...

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Thread: new permit, ONE BIG QUESTION

  1. #46
    Member Array McKahr's Avatar
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    understood, the idea is if your life is ALREADY being threatened - maybe even just verbally, i've had people threaten to kill me AND be violent - now i can say i have a gun ;) my three foot long crowbar i used repeatedly is alot harder to swing and jab with like i used to ;) at 45 with arthritis i just want to pull a trigger or even just say i have a gun ;)
    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    If you and I were about to get into an altercation and you told me that you had a weapon I would consider that to be every bit the threat to my life as brandishing the weapon would be.

    Michael

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  3. #47
    Member Array McKahr's Avatar
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    i was thinking this as well, can u cite that? thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    Florida law requires a concealed weapon to be concealed from "ordinary view." That's a visual requirement only. What you choose to state verbally has no legal bearing on anything.

  4. #48
    Member Array McKahr's Avatar
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    this idea of OH HE HAS A GUN SO HE WILL BE MORE BOLD AND CHALLENGING IN PUBLIC doesn't work for me, it makes me more careful and humble when i carry because i know the potential and as such MORE likely to avoid conflict and of course i worry alot less if conflict comes to me ;)

    - i avoid people like the plague anyway - the lone wolf, with 8 9mm corbon powerball +P teeth if needed
    Quote Originally Posted by Rob99VMI04 View Post
    Guns for the permit holder are not tools of compliance, or do what I say or I will use this.... They are tools of last resort, if your in a situation which you have the mental capacity of saying this you probably should have walked away 5 minutes ago. Guns are not their for you to get your point across or to enforce the law. If thats what you think then go to the police academy. Carrying a gun gives you more of a responsibility to turn the other cheek and walk away, vs using deadly force. You now have the ability to take life and change yours and your families for ever. Therefore I would strongly encourage you to take a class on conflict avoidance or at least read " In the gravest extreme" by massed ayoob. I'm not saying you should never ever use your gun in self defense, what am saying is you need to change your mindset.

    Just because a law says you can/can't doesn't mean you should or shouldn't. Your safety is primary and no matter where you are Florida or California you are accountable for your actions. If you fear grave bodily harm or death take appropriate action, otherwise before your ever in the situation of " I have gun" walk away.

  5. #49
    Member Array McKahr's Avatar
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    hell, i worry about walking to my mailbox with my gun, do i REALLY need my licence on my person, or will the cop accept that i have to walk 50 feet to my house and get out my wallet?
    Quote Originally Posted by nedrgr21 View Post
    Apparently not.
    First, my post was in response to post 18 in reference to how an officer is notified, not whether or not it is required. Nothing about how to inform the officer is mentioned in your citation except providing a permit on request. Nothing about specific verbiage to use in addition to offering up a permit.

    Second, it is common knowledge on sites like DC.com that mention of a duty/requirement to inform refers to the obligation of a citizen to inform an officer, at the beginning of any official interaction, that they are carrying a weapon whether or not the officer specifically asks about any weapons being present. All I said was some states do have a duty to inform, some don't - not everyone lives in FL like the OP. I believe TX and OH are examples of "duty to inform" states where you must inform an officer at the beginning of any interaction whether or not he asks. See the next part of my post wrt FL.

    Third, the FL statute you quoted says that you must inform/present permit when the officer specifically asks/demands knowledge about any weapons present - no duty to inform. Glad I could clear that up for you.

    Fourth, don't know about FL, but I posted about a week ago that the MO gov just signed a law that specifically says that brief exposure of a weapon is ok - maybe that's what you're referring to.

  6. #50
    VIP Member Array mprp's Avatar
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    OP, just keep it concealed and don't go blabbing. Your close relatives may or may not know that you have your permit but if you conceal it properly they won't be able to, nor will they have to know if you have a firearm on you. You should treat it as just another dress piece in your daily routine and no one needs to know about it until either tactfully informing LE that you are licensed and have it with you or when your life is in grave danger and you have no other choice but to present it and stop the threat. That's IT. I don't see it being any more complicated than that.
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  7. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by McKahr View Post
    hell, i worry about walking to my mailbox with my gun, do i REALLY need my licence on my person, or will the cop accept that i have to walk 50 feet to my house and get out my wallet?
    If in your state the statutes allow a homeowner or resident to be on his/her property carrying concealed or openly without any CHL, then yes. If that mailbox is off your property, then your concealed/CHL statutes will apply.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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  8. #52
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Per definitions in a lot of states..... .IF ... you tell someone you have a gun , as a means to intimidate or threaten them, it is a crime. Whether you actually have a gun or not. Not sure if you were talking about a situation you find yourself in , and you advise them you have a gun (hoping to stop them .... but will be interpreted as you threatening them) ..... I wouldn't, under any circumstances.... because it can easily be interpreted to your disadvantage and end you up in jail.

    IF ... it's to admit to a friend you are carrying, that's up to you.

    Anyone outside of a police officer asking you, has no need to know. Period.
    I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
    Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."

  9. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    You ever watched a movie... any movie with a murder scene.... The bad guy talks too much almost every time... And, if his yakitty yak doesn't get him killed... it at least let's the good guy get him first...

    Don't be a bad guy.

    What if one day... you say "don't do that, I have a gun..." And the guy says to you (in a similar vein as Crocodile Dundee) "You call that a gun?" whilst he pulls out his real-honest-to-gosh-fully-automatic-illegal-UZI and ends you...

    NO... Don't talk... don't tell... don't brag.... avoid stupid places,people and don't do stupid things...

    And if you can't afford a class... Get a book.... and read it 3 times... and take notes... which book?

    In the Gravest Extreme: The Role of the Firearm in Personal Protection By Massad Ayoob... Can't find the book? Go to the library... they will get a copy for you .. it might cost a buck or two for an interlibrary loan... But you get that book and you study it...

    Yes, in the book there is at least one incident in which a gun is displayed... But NEVER is it said "I've got a gun."

    You now have a permit... to carry a weapon... it is now time for you to quit worrying about who's is bigger..? who is the man? and all the other "grade school questions." Now is the time when you do your level best to avoid conflicts in which you might otherwise be tempted to say... "I've got a gun."

    No... and don't bring Zimmerman into this... telling TM he had a gun before or after he was allegedly on the ground would have done nothing... and According to Z he thought TM was going for his gun anyway... The TM/Z thing is completely irrelevant...

    Now... I've told you what I think is the BIG ANSWER to your BIG QUESTION.... But in case you don't read for comprehension the answer to your question is....


    NO


    Sorry for my snarkiness... I'm being direct and forthright with the answer I believe you need to hear.
    Ditto - PLEASE also see Buy FLORIDA FIREARMS Law, Use & Ownership Book Seventh Edition - Only $31.50

    Also keep in mind you signed an affidavit stating that you have read the relevant FL Statues.
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  10. #54
    Member Array McKahr's Avatar
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    sounds good, wise and a simple enough summation to cover most all situations...
    - damn bro, u gotta at least have a crossbow ;) i have a 760 myself, 10 pumps and 600+ fps for a .17 BB? good for mice, if even... come one, u gotta have something... go ahead and tell us what guns u have, really?
    Quote Originally Posted by mprp View Post
    OP, just keep it concealed and don't go blabbing. Your close relatives may or may not know that you have your permit but if you conceal it properly they won't be able to, nor will they have to know if you have a firearm on you. You should treat it as just another dress piece in your daily routine and no one needs to know about it until either tactfully informing LE that you are licensed and have it with you or when your life is in grave danger and you have no other choice but to present it and stop the threat. That's IT. I don't see it being any more complicated than that.

  11. #55
    Member Array McKahr's Avatar
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    i figured as much, but for the longest time i had a gun on me on my property before getting a permit and my mail box is on RIGHT OF WAY
    -- they would have to climb a 6 foot fence and THAT would be more than enough reason to pull a gun out - after i race up to them with pepper, knife, etc... u know, escalation of response... which of course can get u killed if they have a gun immediately ready to go... so u never know and too bad we have to worry as much about the police as we do criminals as to our freedom... what sucks is that i can't shoot cause i'm in the city limits (minus 4th of july, new year, and when we win the national championship i can sneak in a few shots as camouflaged auditory bangs around the city mask my crime ;)
    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    If in your state the statutes allow a homeowner or resident to be on his/her property carrying concealed or openly without any CHL, then yes. If that mailbox is off your property, then your concealed/CHL statutes will apply.

  12. #56
    Member Array McKahr's Avatar
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    central? as in Sanford? ;) during our class he had us mark parts of the law we needed to read and then we went over in detail the most important sections... but i think its wrong... we should be able to carry a gun in most all the places u r not allowed... court? now that is an obvious one and doesn't bother me as much when a judge and cop have them... just look at all the violence in courts WITHOUT guns --- i wonder if the lawyers can pack heat...
    Quote Originally Posted by macg19 View Post
    Ditto - PLEASE also see Buy FLORIDA FIREARMS Law, Use & Ownership Book Seventh Edition - Only $31.50

    Also keep in mind you signed an affidavit stating that you have read the relevant FL Statues.

  13. #57
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    I think it is like a game of poker ( not that i treat these kinds of situations as a game it is not). In terms of winning the outcome or hand (surviving), would you reveal that you have four aces before he bets? Once you declare your hand it is now their move.If he thinks his hand can beat your hand he will bet the farm and you may end up buying the farm. Why give up the advantage. Robs advice was spot on. If your at a point where there is only verbal confrontation..Walk away.

    I prefer an attacker finds out when it is too late for them.That facial expression of " I should have never tried to kill this guy,now i am done for"

  14. #58
    Member Array McKahr's Avatar
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    aworld, good points, i was thinking of the verbal warning UNconceal while u r getting your butt kicked or being threatened with maybe a knife or a gang or whatever, but certainly not all just verbal, unless I'M GOING TO KILL YOU comes up ;) i've had a few tell me that - one i hit twice with a crowbar and the other got hounded by police... so maybe I'M GOING TO KILL YOU followed by I HAVE A GUN could work? just keep your hand on it ready for a good old western style duel - gary cooper? forrest tucker? i think that dates me way older than i really am ;)
    From the Bureau of Justice Statistics:
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  15. #59
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    After reading through the posts i can't seem to find an acceptable reason to verbally declare that i am armed. Lots of down sides.If a person is ontop of you and is saying "I'm going to kill you", i take that as a direct threat to life and limb.So action would be needed not some further verbal warning.Its gone beyond at that point.

  16. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by McKahr View Post
    the NRA has done great work over time, but we still have a long way to go... like i can't carry my gun into a bar, EVEN with a permit... this is by far the most NEEDED place of all the restricted places in florida, the most likely some bad guy will have a gun, once again the good citizen is restricted giving criminals the advantage...
    Well, most people go to bars to drink. It's quite simple.. drugs/alcohol and guns don't mix well together. If you feel that a bar is the "most NEEDED place of all restricted places" than perhaps you're drinking at the wrong places. I'm not saying it's impossible for SHTF at a bar, but like neighborhoods, there's some that are better than others.
    "Rebellion against tyrants is obedience to God." - Benjamin Franklin
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