Why does it have to be OC Vs. Police?

This is a discussion on Why does it have to be OC Vs. Police? within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; If you are going to OC, then keep a copy of your state's statutes, and a cell camera on you. Today's LEO thinks he is ...

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Thread: Why does it have to be OC Vs. Police?

  1. #151
    Senior Member Array theskunk's Avatar
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    If you are going to OC, then keep a copy of your state's statutes, and a cell camera on you. Today's LEO thinks he is the A-Type (Alpha Male) - protector of the flock - but sadly they are just aggressive inflated egos, and with no restrictions, and will use intimidation.

    You walking around with a 1911 on your belt is an affront to the 'Alpha's power'. Now you have a camera, and the statutes, and the "Alpha's psyche" is assaulted. Education through organized demonstrations is the key. I am sure the local Chief will love to be on the news, and become educated.
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  3. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roon View Post
    A citizens complaint is not enough eh? Disturbing the peace? Same reason you can't yell fire in a crowded movie theater?


    There are dozens of reasons that could be brought up, whether or not they are reasonable is up for debate and depends on who you ask.

    I am of the opinion that if you want trouble with the LEO's you will find it, if you treat them like human beings just trying to get their job done you will probably get the same respect back in return. That is really my only point.
    In the State of Oklahoma a person who is lawfully carrying a firearm cannot be charges with disturbing the peace or disorderly conduct. That takes the most obvious charge out of play here.
    EDIT: This was the language when the bill was written. Not 100% sure it made it into law.
    1289.24 Firearm Regulation state preemption
    Adds the following language As provided in the preemption provisions of this section, the otherwise lawful open carrying of a handgun under the provisions of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act shall not be punishable by any municipality or other political subdivision of this state as disorderly conduct, disturbing the peace or similar offense against public order.
    Will do further checking.

    Michael

  4. #153
    Distinguished Member Array OhioCatter's Avatar
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    Before I may stick foot in mouth, I didn't read every reply. It doesn't have to be us vs. LEO. We just need to work together on this issue. I personally know an LEO that came up with a terrific idea where he is employed. It's a small town so it probably worked better there than maybe a big city. What they did in their small town was have a gathering of LEO and the folks who choose to OC. Like a meeting/gathering in the park. The Chief and fellow LEO's got together with thoes who choose to OC and had a discussion of concerns on both sides (OC/LEO) of the fence. I wasn't there so I cant say what all happened but I know now there is less issues when LEO's get a call about someone who is OC'ing. It would be great if someone/we could get a program started with our local LEO's where we could have discussions like this and maybe get the general public involved as well. I know its a stretch but it could happen. I know I may get flamed, saying, this will never work, there are to many anti's out there and so on, but if the public see's us working with LEO it may change some minds that OC'ers are not trying to be a modern day cowboy like some think. Now granted I know you have bad apples on both sides but not everyone is a bad apple. If I had the time, and the knowhow to pull it off, I would talk to the city about having an OC gathering in a park or somewhere and invite everyone to come and see what and we are about OC/CC. I know not everyone wants people to know they CC or OC (obviously the OC) so it would take thoes who are willing to put that aside to help educate folks. OC or CC is fine by me, whatever makes the individuale happy. Fire away folks.
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  5. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roon View Post
    A citizens complaint is not enough eh?
    No

    Disturbing the peace?
    No

    Same reason you can't yell fire in a crowded movie theater?
    You're going to have to explain how this would apply . . . . . should be amusing.

    There are dozens of reasons that could be brought up, whether or not they are reasonable is up for debate and depends on who you ask.
    Making things up to justify unlawful action is despicable and I'm shocked (not) that you'd suggest it.

    I am of the opinion that if you want trouble with the LEO's you will find it, if you treat them like human beings just trying to get their job done you will probably get the same respect back in return. That is really my only point.
    You assume that refusing to allow or comply with inappropriate conduct from a representative of authority is somehow "looking for trouble", certainly a troubling thought process.
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  6. #155
    Senior Member Array theskunk's Avatar
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    It would be great if someone/we could get a program started with our local LEO's where we could have discussions like this and maybe get the general public involved as well.

    That's the real answer to Open Carry question. Put some flyers in the gun shops - ranges- etc, and see if you can form a committee. Just going one on one with some street cop is not the answer.
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  7. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roon View Post
    A citizens complaint is not enough eh? Disturbing the peace? Same reason you can't yell fire in a crowded movie theater?


    There are dozens of reasons that could be brought up, whether or not they are reasonable is up for debate and depends on who you ask.

    I am of the opinion that if you want trouble with the LEO's you will find it, if you treat them like human beings just trying to get their job done you will probably get the same respect back in return. That is really my only point.
    My point is that your point is wrong. I included the legal justification so that you could better understand why. Alas, I think this conversation isn't going to go anywhere good from here. Good night.
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  8. #157
    VIP Member Array Brad426's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhioCatter View Post
    Before I may stick foot in mouth, I didn't read every reply. It doesn't have to be us vs. LEO. We just need to work together on this issue. I personally know an LEO that came up with a terrific idea where he is employed. It's a small town so it probably worked better there than maybe a big city. What they did in their small town was have a gathering of LEO and the folks who choose to OC. Like a meeting/gathering in the park. The Chief and fellow LEO's got together with thoes who choose to OC and had a discussion of concerns on both sides (OC/LEO) of the fence. I wasn't there so I cant say what all happened but I know now there is less issues when LEO's get a call about someone who is OC'ing. It would be great if someone/we could get a program started with our local LEO's where we could have discussions like this and maybe get the general public involved as well. I know its a stretch but it could happen. I know I may get flamed, saying, this will never work, there are to many anti's out there and so on, but if the public see's us working with LEO it may change some minds that OC'ers are not trying to be a modern day cowboy like some think. Now granted I know you have bad apples on both sides but not everyone is a bad apple. If I had the time, and the knowhow to pull it off, I would talk to the city about having an OC gathering in a park or somewhere and invite everyone to come and see what and we are about OC/CC. I know not everyone wants people to know they CC or OC (obviously the OC) so it would take thoes who are willing to put that aside to help educate folks. OC or CC is fine by me, whatever makes the individuale happy. Fire away folks.
    That is the most ridiculous, asinine... no wait, it's a pretty good idea, actually.
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  9. #158
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  10. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhioCatter View Post
    Before I may stick foot in mouth, I didn't read every reply. It doesn't have to be us vs. LEO. We just need to work together on this issue. I personally know an LEO that came up with a terrific idea where he is employed. It's a small town so it probably worked better there than maybe a big city. What they did in their small town was have a gathering of LEO and the folks who choose to OC. Like a meeting/gathering in the park. The Chief and fellow LEO's got together with thoes who choose to OC and had a discussion of concerns on both sides (OC/LEO) of the fence. I wasn't there so I cant say what all happened but I know now there is less issues when LEO's get a call about someone who is OC'ing. It would be great if someone/we could get a program started with our local LEO's where we could have discussions like this and maybe get the general public involved as well. I know its a stretch but it could happen. I know I may get flamed, saying, this will never work, there are to many anti's out there and so on, but if the public see's us working with LEO it may change some minds that OC'ers are not trying to be a modern day cowboy like some think. Now granted I know you have bad apples on both sides but not everyone is a bad apple. If I had the time, and the knowhow to pull it off, I would talk to the city about having an OC gathering in a park or somewhere and invite everyone to come and see what and we are about OC/CC. I know not everyone wants people to know they CC or OC (obviously the OC) so it would take thoes who are willing to put that aside to help educate folks. OC or CC is fine by me, whatever makes the individuale happy. Fire away folks.
    I think this would work very well in places with good LEO leadership. It's how things should work everywhere. Too bad it usually doesn't.
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  11. #160
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhioCatter View Post
    What they did in their small town was have a gathering of LEO and the folks who choose to OC. Like a meeting/gathering in the park. The Chief and fellow LEO's got together with thoes who choose to OC and had a discussion of concerns on both sides (OC/LEO) of the fence.
    Good idea. In a state with legal carry, I can't see such a gathering being wasteful. Might not be taken well by prejudicial individuals in both camps, but anything else isn't likely to get anywhere as quickly as opening up lines of communication where none existed previously.

    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    I think this would work very well in places with good LEO leadership. It's how things should work everywhere. Too bad it usually doesn't.
    It would be interesting to know in how many communities such specific meetings have occurred, on the carry/OC topic, and what the results were. Can't imagine it could hurt.
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  12. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgb View Post
    No



    No



    You're going to have to explain how this would apply . . . . . should be amusing.



    Making things up to justify unlawful action is despicable and I'm shocked (not) that you'd suggest it.
    I am not suggesting making things up, just pointing out that those are options.


    You assume that refusing to allow or comply with inappropriate conduct from a representative of authority is somehow "looking for trouble", certainly a troubling thought process.
    I am merely suggesting that when dealing with LEO's perhaps it isn't so much what you are saying...but how you are saying it. I know I know, you would like everything to always be cut and dry and emotions be left out of it, but you are dealing with people (LEO's) and sometimes that just isn't going to happen. So perhaps a little courtesy and understanding would go a long way.

    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    My point is that your point is wrong. I included the legal justification so that you could better understand why. Alas, I think this conversation isn't going to go anywhere good from here. Good night.
    Totally understand the legal justification for it, but the fact that it still happens despite all the legal justification in the world is telling.

  13. #162
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    Totally understand the legal justification for it, but the fact that it still happens despite all the legal justification in the world is telling.
    It sure is. It tells me that there is something seriously wrong with the way police are doing business in our country. Sooner or later "We the People" are going to have to fix that.
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    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  14. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    It sure is. It tells me that there is something seriously wrong with the way police are doing business in our country. Sooner or later "We the People" are going to have to fix that.
    Placing the blame entirely on one side is a little silly. You trying to tell me that there are not those in the OC community who do their best to create an us vs them mentality with the police? The "Cop Block" types come to mind.

  15. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roon View Post
    Placing the blame entirely on one side is a little silly. You trying to tell me that there are not those in the OC community who do their best to create an us vs them mentality with the police? The "Cop Block" types come to mind.
    atctimmy now hangs his head and sadly walks away from the conversation.
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  16. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roon View Post
    Placing the blame entirely on one side is a little silly. You trying to tell me that there are not those in the OC community who do their best to create an us vs them mentality with the police? The "Cop Block" types come to mind.
    There are idiots that try to get a rise out of the police. That is why they are called idiots. But the LEO is paid to enforce the law..no more, no less. That sir is a big difference. A LEO should dispassionatly enforce the law. Without bias or prejudiced. Being a jerk is not a reason to further investigate an individual.. Andif the LEO's were smart enough they should realize that most of these idiots actually do know the law and they end up being found not guilty .
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