Why does it have to be OC Vs. Police? - Page 12

Why does it have to be OC Vs. Police?

This is a discussion on Why does it have to be OC Vs. Police? within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Roon Placing the blame entirely on one side is a little silly. You trying to tell me that there are not those ...

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Thread: Why does it have to be OC Vs. Police?

  1. #166
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roon View Post
    Placing the blame entirely on one side is a little silly. You trying to tell me that there are not those in the OC community who do their best to create an us vs them mentality with the police?
    Apples and oranges, despite both being bad behaviors: one is unlawful, heavy-handed harassment of people going about their lawful business (speaking of the worst of the engagements); the other is merely bad, unyielding manners (speaking of the worst of the engagements).

    I'm going out on a limb here, perhaps, but I'd bet the bad, stiff manners would largely cease the moment the stomping on lawful behavior ceased.
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  2. #167
    Senior Member Array GeorgiaDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    I'm going out on a limb here, perhaps, but I'd bet the bad, stiff manners would largely cease the moment the stomping on lawful behavior ceased.
    A lot of it might go away, yes, but there will always be some people who don't care about what others do or think and will get aggressive regardless of what the LEOs do, and then there will always be those who have a disdain for authority and the government, and will try to stick it to LEOs at every opportunity.

    Changes need to be made on both sides.
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  3. #168
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    But the LEO is paid to enforce the law..no more, no less.
    Yes. Which includes and covers general lookout for the safety of the community members ... but within the confines of the law, not beyond it or outside of it.
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  4. #169
    Senior Member Array theskunk's Avatar
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    The only solution on a local level, is to organize and meet with the police chief. Hold the meeting at the town hall. Bring your state statutes, tell him the problem, focus on a standard procedure for handling Open Carry stops. All the chief has to do is issue a memo at roll call, shift change.

  5. #170
    Member Array Roon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    There are idiots that try to get a rise out of the police. That is why they are called idiots. But the LEO is paid to enforce the law..no more, no less. That sir is a big difference. A LEO should dispassionatly enforce the law. Without bias or prejudiced. Being a jerk is not a reason to further investigate an individual.. Andif the LEO's were smart enough they should realize that most of these idiots actually do know the law and they end up being found not guilty .
    I get it, in a perfect world where our laws are enforced by those ROBOCOP robots this would happen. Sadly, we do not live in such an environment and thus must take a look at reality instead of what we think SHOULD happen. Please, don't mistake my playing devils advocate as me being supportive of police harassment...I am merely pointing out reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Apples and oranges, despite both being bad behaviors: one is unlawful, heavy-handed harassment of people going about their lawful business (speaking of the worst of the engagements); the other is merely bad, unyielding manners (speaking of the worst of the engagements).
    I would say that it is probably a good thing that folks with bad, unyielding manners get roughed up from time to time. To quote Bill Burr "Every guy has a line, and if you cross it you get blasted in the mouth". Thats the reality of it...not saying its right...but it is what it is and perhaps a little understanding and more deliberate attempts to show a little kindness and understanding will help make that go away.


    I'm going out on a limb here, perhaps, but I'd bet the bad, stiff manners would largely cease the moment the stomping on lawful behavior ceased.
    Ahhh, so the old "he hit me first!!" argument?

  6. #171
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    @ Roon: Which is it" Is it OK to bust someones chops or not??????

    I would say that it is probably a good thing that folks with bad, unyielding manners get roughed up from time to time. To quote Bill Burr "Every guy has a line, and if you cross it you get blasted in the mouth". Thats the reality of it...not saying its right...but it is what it is and perhaps a little understanding and more deliberate attempts to show a little kindness and understanding will help make that go away.

  7. #172
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    I would say that it is probably a good thing that folks with bad, unyielding manners get roughed up from time to time. To quote Bill Burr "Every guy has a line, and if you cross it you get blasted in the mouth". Thats the reality of it...not saying its right...but it is what it is and perhaps a little understanding and more deliberate attempts to show a little kindness and understanding will help make that go away.
    I'm not sure who it is you believe should be roughed up. The person who is using bad unyielding manners while unlawfully attempting to gather information. Or, the person who while acting within the law refuses to give out information while acting in a bad unyielding manner?
    When both are acting in that bad unyielding manner which do we rough up? The one following the law or the one breaking it?

    Michael

  8. #173
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    Keep it civil, on point, polite and nice please.
    Last edited by Rock and Glock; July 30th, 2012 at 08:45 PM.

  9. #174
    VIP Member Array Aceoky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glocknug View Post
    Probably due to Liability. If the dispatcher didnt dispatch an Officer to the guy with a gun call... the one time in a million it would be something serious, somebody would be shot, and then they are liable... Like I said, highly unlikely, but possible... so they send an Officer.
    While I do not think you're still around I'd like to address this anyway.

    Here is how it is often handled here (OC is part of our State's Constitution btw) Caller calls 911 "MWAG" Dispatch asks some simple questions for example "is the person pointing the gun at or threatening anyone" - "NO" Dispatch then informs them there is nothing illegal then going on and the Police cannot do anything but they will notify them and have LEO call them IF they want- Dispatch then contacts LEO who will make sure the caller's information is logged IF they get more calls from same caller they will often be charged with abuse of 911 for tying up resources without any cause having been notified by dispatch and LEO (often both on the same time frame) it is 100% legal activity . I have never heard of one case of "liability" (and really WHAT liability is there for not responding to legal activity? ) Obviously callers are informed that IF the carrier starts doing something that IS ILLEGAL to call them back but just being armed is not a crime and there is no need to tie up limited resources "for nothing" it has worked quite well here for a long time (> 150 years - but we didn't have 911 the whole time LOL)

  10. #175
    VIP Member Array 1MoreGoodGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aceoky View Post
    While I do not think you're still around I'd like to address this anyway.

    Here is how it is often handled here (OC is part of our State's Constitution btw) Caller calls 911 "MWAG" Dispatch asks some simple questions for example "is the person pointing the gun at or threatening anyone" - "NO" Dispatch then informs them there is nothing illegal then going on and the Police cannot do anything but they will notify them and have LEO call them IF they want- Dispatch then contacts LEO who will make sure the caller's information is logged IF they get more calls from same caller they will often be charged with abuse of 911 for tying up resources without any cause having been notified by dispatch and LEO (often both on the same time frame) it is 100% legal activity . I have never heard of one case of "liability" (and really WHAT liability is there for not responding to legal activity? ) Obviously callers are informed that IF the carrier starts doing something that IS ILLEGAL to call them back but just being armed is not a crime and there is no need to tie up limited resources "for nothing" it has worked quite well here for a long time (> 150 years - but we didn't have 911 the whole time LOL)
    That's how it should always be handled.

    And if LEO does respond and visually observes that there is nothing illegal taking place, the LEO needs to refrain from initiating contact with the person acting lawfully.

    If the LEO doesn't initiate contact with the person who is engaged in only legal activity, there is no video of a LEO confrontation to post on youtube.
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  11. #176
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    I always assume that when I see open carry that those people are the police...
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  12. #177
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    I'm glad somebody resurrected this thread. We just haven't had enough OC argument threads lately, even with the whole coffee fiasco.
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  13. #178
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    There are so many possibilities for threads though. OC into a funeral home? OC into the Catholic confessional? OC into the birthing room of your first youngster.

    We could go on and on and on and on

    Personally I support OC or CC or both at once into any of the above
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  14. #179
    VIP Member Array Badey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qtip View Post
    I'm glad somebody resurrected this thread. We just haven't had enough OC argument threads lately, even with the whole coffee fiasco.
    I agree. This dead horse can use some more beating (I'd put a fancy emoticon thing, but can't figure out how to do it on tapatalk).

    In all seriousness, I do like debating, which is how I actually came to this forum in the first place


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  15. #180
    VIP Member Array Aceoky's Avatar
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    I don't always beat a horse ; but when I do I prefer dead ones

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