Why does it have to be OC Vs. Police?

This is a discussion on Why does it have to be OC Vs. Police? within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by glocknug First off, I want to say that I do not usually open carry, although I am usually armed. I have absolutely ...

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Thread: Why does it have to be OC Vs. Police?

  1. #46
    Ex Member Array F350's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glocknug View Post
    First off, I want to say that I do not usually open carry, although I am usually armed. I have absolutely NO problem with Open Carry in general, but I am very curious about this. I am also a Police Officer.

    Why are there so many OCers that seem like they are just out to give the Police a hard time?Why are so many cops out to give OCers a hard time , or even CCers, can you say "Harless"? I can tell you that nobody I work with is out there trying to "harass" people legally carrying a firearm. In fact, most are all for it. I can also tell you that we HATE being dispatched to calls regarding things that are not illegal, such as a guy openly carrying a holstered firearm, but we still HAVE to go!

    Instead of making YouTube Videos and giving the Police a hard time, why can't we work together? The majority of the time I have positive conversations with people who OCDuring these "positive conversations" do you ask for ID?, but there are always some who just want to give you a hard time for no reason. I also try to call the complaintants back and I explain to them that nothing illegal or dangerous is occuring.

    Don't you think this hurts the rest of us in the long run, in the public eye? I think this is definatly the case when you have people OCing an AK-47, for no reason, just so they get approached by a Police Officer (Almost ALWAYS resonding to citizen complaints!), just to get a YouTube video up.

    It doesn't have to be OC Vs. Police...Why cant we just work together? OK, most the guys YOU work with are pro-second amendment but there are probably more locals where the attitude of LEO is down right hostile
    OK you point out the extreme end of things (slung AK) what about the You-Tubes of encounters like the group eating in a Steak & Shake, minding their own business when descended upon by a group of hostile cops or the guys enjoying lunch outside at a Culver's in WI when harrassed by the cops?? Regrettably the positive encounters even if videoed don't make good You-Tube stock.

    Here in western Colorado I OC everyday, just going about my daily life, I have bumped into some cops from time to time, perhaps it is because I am carrying I get a nod or a "good day" and we exchange a few pleasantries, because I carry a bit of an odd gun some have taken second looks think they know what it is but somethings not right and they have asked what I'm carrying. It's basically a 1911, but it is a Para-Ordnance and takes double stack mags, we talk guns for a minute and we go on our way. BUT if ever asked for ID during a casual encounter things will go from warm and pleasant to cold and distant at the speed of light!

    I tend to think the guys that go looking for "encounters" are operating in an environment that is already OC hostile and like Rosa Parks refusing to give up her seat confrontation is seen as the best way to back the cops down, going along to get along won't change a thing.

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  3. #47
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    EXCELLENT post F350...

  4. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by leecheater View Post
    I live in northern Mn. and I do open carry a lot. I'm sure I'll hear about this ,but I don't have any problem with an officer asking to see my permit. To me it's no different than a officer asking to see my dl .
    PAPERS!!!! You vill show your identity papers!!!!!

    If I am driving and get pulled over just for a license check I will be as irritated as if I were stopped while walking down the street and asked for ID. A request for ID MUST be as a result of RAS of a crime (speeding in the case of driving for example) you can not be stopped at random for no reason other than an ID check. ICE can't even do ID checks on obvious illegals why should I have to put up with it?!?!?!
    Last edited by Rock and Glock; July 20th, 2012 at 02:38 PM.
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  5. #49
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    It's my opinion that those who OC (myself included, at times) bring additional scrutiny to ourselves just by having a gun on us in plain sight. We should expect this from a concerned (yet ignorant) society, and learn to roll with it rather than getting upset that someone dares question us while exercising our right to carry our firearms around. Hopefully people will be better informed in the future, but we can't count on that. We can only control how we act, and I would hope that "confrontational" is not in our vocabulary, even when we are put in situations that aren't pleasant for us. When I get completely fed up with being questioned by LEOs, I will CC 100%, rather than start acting rudely.
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  6. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by xXxplosive View Post
    Everyone must abide by the laws..........including LE.
    I wait for the day that is true.
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  7. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by glocknug View Post
    Probably due to Liability. If the dispatcher didnt dispatch an Officer to the guy with a gun call... the one time in a million it would be something serious, somebody would be shot, and then they are liable... Like I said, highly unlikely, but possible... so they send an Officer.
    Actually there are numerous US Supreme Court rulings that the police have no duty to respond/protect anyone

    NO AFFIRMATIVE DUTY TO PROTECT US
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  8. #52
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    This is to the OP think of it this way say you r on a call racing though town with your lights and siren blaring and some one pulled out in front of u and stoped you. They then ask u to produce proper proof that you r law enforcement and called it in to see if it is legit. Shoot you could have stole the car and they just wanted to make sure you are acting under the law while you r speeding and disturbing the peace. Sounds pretty stupid doesnt it would b wasting your time when you had other pressing maters. Some of us feel the same way about being stopped in r every day life for doing nothing wrong or illegal. Just think about it. I don't try and waste your time I ask the same
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  9. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverickx50 View Post
    But: If that guy walking into the Colorado theater was stopped for open carry ...
    It's a good counterpoint to the whole concept of confirming corroborating factors as compared with a lone person simply walking down the street, or a group of parents with children seated at tables having a leisurely lunch.

    In the case of a masked, helmeted, goggled dude in BDU's packing a rifle, multiple handguns and magazines galore desiring to walk into a packed gallery of generally (or fully) unarmed innocents, I'd say that's an entirely different situation, and one that should set off all sorts of alarm bells in anyone's head, including that of entry/exit staff as well as police.

    A MWAG call in this theatre sort of situation (where someone's "loaded for bear") would have been solidly justified to have officers inquire, detain, evaluate. IMO, such a situation would loudly beg a question as to purpose for being so ... uh, prepared.

    No explanation, so far, as to where he got in with all the clothing and hardware. Lacking better info (or assistance from someone opening the door from the inside), he might simply have packed it underneath a larger jacket. I'm sure it'll be reported at some point.
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  10. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    No explanation, so far, as to where he got in with all the clothing and hardware. Lacking better info (or assistance from someone opening the door from the inside), he might simply have packed it underneath a larger jacket. I'm sure it'll be reported at some point.
    One of the articles state he kicked in a fire exit IIRC.
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  11. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Originally Posted by Maverickx5
    But: If that guy walking into the Colorado theater was stopped for open carry ...
    If he was open carrying his Glocks, an AK, and a Remington 870 - I'm pretty sure he would have been stopped.

    Is it coincidence that in most violent shootings the weapons go unnoticed until the shooting starts? I think that's related to them being CONCEALED prior to the attack, they don't typically walk across a parking lot carrying 2-3 long guns, tear gas, gas mask, and holstered pistol out in the open and ask if you can hold the door open for them.

  12. #56
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    Regarding entry ... If the emergency exit door was close to shrubs/trees, it's entirely possible he stashed the gear just outside the door, went in as a "normal" paying customer, then ducked out the exit door to quickly don the mask and grab the guns, reentering via the door he'd propped open. Hard to say, at this point, with the conflicting stories.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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  13. #57
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    OP needs to chill out and continue to do their jobs. And if that means responding due to their rules, then do the job period. If the OP does not like the requirement to respond, then he has the ability to ask for a review of the policy and maybe it will be changed. I can see valid reasons to check out calls about OC. Age, pulling it out of his holster, threatening others around them, etc.

    If your job requires you to go out and investigate this kind of thing, then you need to do your job or find another occupation or a way to fix the policies of your superiors...
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  14. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    No explanation, so far, as to where he got in with all the clothing and hardware. Lacking better info (or assistance from someone opening the door from the inside), he might simply have packed it underneath a larger jacket. I'm sure it'll be reported at some point.

    The scum bag parked behind the theater just by the fire exit door and came in through the fire exit. No word I've heard on how he opened it from the outside. Perhaps it was broken, maybe he had an accomplice. That would not surprise me.
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  15. #59
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    Here we go again . We keep trying to assume that when a LEO intrerupts an OC person it is out of concern for the public or that he is some how just trying to be a nice guy.
    that would be fine if it were the case.
    That is not what they are up to they are pushing their own political agenda and using a badge to do it. The do not care one bit about anything else. If they did they would not be messing with a person acting with in the law they would be kicking in the door of the crack house two blocks down they have know about for a year. But can't do that to much bad press so lets go mess with the OC carry guy .
    Truth is coming out again in Milwaukee police not taking reports of crimes, miss reporting to cover up the numbers . But they have time to "take any open OC to the ground and take their weapon" as per the chief of police. 4 more gunned down the other night in 4 hours not one LEO in sight.

  16. #60
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    Actually there are numerous US Supreme Court rulings that the police have no duty to respond/protect anyone
    That won't stop the Plaintiffs Bar from trying to extract legal blackmail. That should prompt most Agencies to be concerned.

    Here we go again . We keep trying to assume that when a LEO intrerupts an OC person it is out of concern for the public or that he is some how just trying to be a nice guy.
    that would be fine if it were the case.
    That is not what they are up to they are pushing their own political agenda and using a badge to do it. The do not care one bit about anything else. If they did they would not be messing with a person acting with in the law they would be kicking in the door of the crack house two blocks down they have know about for a year. But can't do that to much bad press so lets go mess with the OC carry guy .
    Those are generalizations. Let's move past that, please.

    One of the articles state he kicked in a fire exit IIRC.
    Fire Exits open outward. That explanation is incomplete it appears? Propped open earlier? Pressure handle taped down?

    What is clear is that he came in an Emergency exit somehow.
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