Question for Open Carriers...

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Originally Posted by SandWMandP

It only takes one time for it to go from a "could" to a "did." And then if it does your life, the lives of friends and loved one who you carry to protect, and the lives of innocent bystander are in danger. There is a reason why cops carry in level 2 and level 3 holsters.

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Yep, because their jobs often bring them into situations we are able to stay away from. Unless you are constantly involved with working with thugs or pulling over strangers, don't compare carrying for civilians with that of police. Sorry, but that excuse is weak because 'we' are not going to houses where we are not wanted, chasing people through streets, going on calls for various types of violence or just being a target for doing our job.

Using your logic we shouldn't carry at all, ND's happen and put people's lives in danger, just don't carry to avoid the possibility or move to one of the states that take care of you so you don't have to worry about it (California, New Jersey, Illinois come to mind).

I'm also sick of reading that open carriers are looking for attention or use it as a way to act tough, etc, etc, etc. I don't do it often, but when I do it's because I can and it's how I feel like carrying at the time, not to look for a confrontation with police or get attention otherwise. If I feel as though I'm going somewhere that will draw attention I'll take the extra steps to carry concealed, other than that the last time I checked it was still my choice in Minnesota - and I enjoy the choice. Once they come out with a good level 2 retention holster for the XD-S I'll gladly use one, until then I don't have much choice in the matter unless I want to use a nylon Gunmate universal fit holster every time.

What's described in the original post isn't an open carry issue, it's a carry issue.

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Please site all the cases where an OCers gun was taken from them.

This is like planning for the meth crazed home invader and carrying 2 extra mags of red hot zombie killer rounds.

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Originally Posted by hayzor

Please site all the cases where an OCers gun was taken from them.

This is like planning for the meth crazed home invader and carrying 2 extra mags of red hot zombie killer rounds.

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So Open Carrying using a retention holster is like planning for a meth crazed home invader?

Then having a gun for home defense in upscale suburb with no crime rate must be pointless eh? I mean, who plans for the improbable? Nobody here right? I mean the odds of us having to use our personal defense weapons are really high and therefore justify our carrying right?

/sarcasm

Bottom line is a retention holster is just common sense if open carry is the method you choose.

Open or concealed, doesn't matter - there are reports of concealed carriers having their guns taken as well - as I said, this is NOT an open carry issue, rather a carry issue.

Here's just one recent and local example:
http://www.kare11.com/news/article/9...d-with-own-gun

It could be argued that had he been open carrying the attacker may have chosen a different target, or worst case - the outcome would have been the same.

A study was done and found that you are 60% less likely to be attacked if the person knows you are carrying... Considering the chances are already pretty low, adding another 60% less of a chance to that is OK in my book.

We will never know how many instances open carry prevents, but there have been cases where it has prevented a crime.

We do know that concealed carry prevents 0.

We will also never know how many times an open carrier becomes 'the target' simply because they are open carrying.

Welcome to DC.com!

I am an OC advocate and OC everywhere allowable. When I made the decision to buy my gun and OC I decided to get a positive retention holster with a stout strap and thumb break release. After shopping around I went for the Vega 3 position holster specifically for the Bersa .45

As for the OC vs CC debate, I'll stay out of that and go with the folks who agree that it doesn't HOW as long as you DO carry.

I live in a pretty gun friendly part of Maine and haven't had any problems other than a few OMG looks and one "you're scaring some customers", which ended with a friendly & informed couple of managers who told me to carry on. I consider myself an ambassador and always try to look presentable and approachable and I think that has produced some great conversations along the way. I've even been thanked a couple times.

Regardless of HOW you carry, know the law and be prepared to answer questions. If you OC there WILL be questions. I carry a pocket info card I had made through vista print that I hand out every chance I get and it seems to go a long way toward educating my fellow Citizens.

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Originally Posted by Thunder71

Open or concealed, doesn't matter - there are reports of concealed carriers having their guns taken as well - as I said, this is NOT an open carry issue, rather a carry issue.

Here's just one recent and local example:
Conceal and carry permit holder robbed with own gun | kare11.com

It could be argued that had he been open carrying the attacker may have chosen a different target, or worst case - the outcome would have been the same.

A study was done and found that you are 60% less likely to be attacked if the person knows you are carrying... Considering the chances are already pretty low, adding another 60% less of a chance to that is OK in my book.

We will never know how many instances open carry prevents, but there have been cases where it has prevented a crime.

We do know that concealed carry prevents 0.

We will also never know how many times an open carrier becomes 'the target' simply because they are open carrying.

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This isn't about OC vs CC.

This is about being smart about how you carry, whatever that choice is. If you ask me, Open carrying without a retention holster is just not smart.

You're making it a differentiation, I'm trying to say there shouldn't be one... Concealed or open, doesn't matter, you should have retention either way based on the argument posted.

I posted a reference to an concealed carrier having their weapon held against their head.

My point, why make this another OC vs CC debate issue when it's proven that CC has this problem as well. At least I've posted a reference to an occurrence, I have yet to see an open carrier reference posted.

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Originally Posted by Roon

So Open Carrying using a retention holster is like planning for a meth crazed home invader?

Then having a gun for home defense in upscale suburb with no crime rate must be pointless eh? I mean, who plans for the improbable? Nobody here right? I mean the odds of us having to use our personal defense weapons are really high and therefore justify our carrying right?

/sarcasm

Bottom line is a retention holster is just common sense if open carry is the method you choose.

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Having an open carried gun taken out of a holster is about as common as a home invasion where the home invaders must be shot several times with large caliber weapons before being stopped.
Actually it is probably less common than that.
Most home invasions can be thwarted by a gun shooting blanks. A loud noise and some fire out of the muzzle of a firearm will get most BGs out of the house in a hurry.
Do I advocate shooting blanks – NO.
Do I think you are at risk getting you OC firearm taken out of a holster – No.
If you want a retention holster for your OC rig – go get one.
In my opinion, your money is better spent on training and practice ammo than gear.

I OC with a Vega leather holster with a forward slant and a thumb break, and as someone said above, if anyone tries to get it they will receive an elbow in the face. I also CC when I want too with the same holster.

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Originally Posted by Crescentstar

I have seen this before. Open carry, concealed carry, just carry, but do it safely and responsibly. A retention holster is a must for OC.

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+1.

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Originally Posted by Thunder71

You're making it a differentiation, I'm trying to say there shouldn't be one... Concealed or open, doesn't matter, you should have retention either way based on the argument posted.

I posted a reference to an concealed carrier having their weapon held against their head.

My point, why make this another OC vs CC debate issue when it's proven that CC has this problem as well. At least I've posted a reference to an occurrence, I have yet to see an open carrier reference posted.

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In the story you linked it would not have mattered. I live in MN and remember that incident clearly. The guy assaulted the CC'er and injured him to the point he was unable to defend himself. He then searched him and found his weapon and then used it to rob him.

There is a case out of Wisconsin where an OC'er was held at gunpoint and actually helped the criminal get his gun out of his holster. I didn't bring that up as it is a bad example, just like the story you linked.

People are a lot less likely to remove your gun from a CC'er without first assaulting them then they are someone OC'ing without a retention holster. That is just logic.

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Originally Posted by hayzor

Having an open carried gun taken out of a holster is about as common as a home invasion where the home invaders must be shot several times with large caliber weapons before being stopped.
Actually it is probably less common than that.
Most home invasions can be thwarted by a gun shooting blanks. A loud noise and some fire out of the muzzle of a firearm will get most BGs out of the house in a hurry.
Do I advocate shooting blanks – NO.
Do I think you are at risk getting you OC firearm taken out of a holster – No.
If you want a retention holster for your OC rig – go get one.
In my opinion, your money is better spent on training and practice ammo than gear.

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Training will do you no good when you don't have a weapon. Why not get both a retention holster and training/ammo? Or are they mutually exclusive? One or the other?

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Originally Posted by Roon

Training will do you no good when you don't have a weapon. Why not get both a retention holster and training/ammo? Or are they mutually exclusive? One or the other?

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I always advocate for training & practice over gear. I’ve spent money on both, but most folks, myself included, do not have an unlimited supply of $$$.
Life is about compromises. If you can’t have it all, one must prioritize.
I think that good training will serve you well in almost all situations where your firearm is required.
A retention holster prevents 1 very unlikely scenario. (If there are many occurrences of this, please provide links. I may be underestimating this issue)
I don’t want to discourage someone from getting both, but for those that can’t, the training/ practice is definitely higher on the list than the holster.

I've CC in Florida for over 20 years and like it just fine. I tried OC once while fishing (legal to do so in FL while fishing, hunting or camping) and got panicked looks from a few folks.
The NRA has been trying to get OC in FL for a couple of years now. Time will tell if it happens anytime soon. Because of M/Z more anti gun feelings than usual.

So long as I have the freedom to choose the holster I want to carry and not the Government making that decision for me I will be content.

Michael

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Originally Posted by Roon

This isn't about OC vs CC.

This is about being smart about how you carry, whatever that choice is. If you ask me, Open carrying without a retention holster is just not smart.

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The thread title says question for open carriers! I think that makes it about OC!