Question for Open Carriers...

This is a discussion on Question for Open Carriers... within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by OldVet Besides, the BG will obviously steal the non-retention gun and leave yours alone. Excellent point!!...

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  1. #61
    Senior Member Array Devone6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    Besides, the BG will obviously steal the non-retention gun and leave yours alone.
    Excellent point!!
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  3. #62
    VIP Member Array SmokinFool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbglock View Post
    If I open carry one of my revolvers I carry in a non retention holster that is hip forward. My arm is the retention. If I open carry a Glock I carry in a Blackhawk Serpa slightly hip forward. Don't fool yourselves. Retention holsters that are your only retention are false hope. Your best retention is situational awareness and appropriate open carry.
    I agree with this for the most part, especially about SA. Where I differ is that I feel (and this is only my opinion, folks. Everyone is entitled to one) that if one open carries, it should be in a retention holster. Just as a retention holster alone is not a panacea for a gun grab, neither is SA alone. We should be taking a holistic approach to the issue.
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  4. #63
    VIP Member Array 40Bob's Avatar
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    How many people here have actually HAD someone go for their gun? I guarantee it will be the fight of your life. Cops get killed frequently because they are disarmed using retention holsters, I have seen the holster fail, and the BG gets gun, holster and all......You may have time to react, maybe not.

    Teen homicide suspects have criminal histories | Richmond Times-Dispatch

    Unarmed man attempts to rob EMU student of holstered gun

    Man Legally Carrying Gun Robbed at Gunpoint - TODAY'S TMJ4

    And one for testing your rig.

    Torture testing your holster
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  5. #64
    Ex Member Array PIMking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 40Bob View Post
    How many people here have actually HAD someone go for their gun? I guarantee it will be the fight of your life. Cops get killed frequently because they are disarmed using retention holsters, I have seen the holster fail, and the BG gets gun, holster and all......You may have time to react, maybe not.

    Teen homicide suspects have criminal histories | Richmond Times-Dispatch

    Unarmed man attempts to rob EMU student of holstered gun

    Man Legally Carrying Gun Robbed at Gunpoint - TODAY'S TMJ4

    And one for testing your rig.

    Torture testing your holster
    So? we have soldiers coming home shot to death and they're wearing body armor. The point I'm making is that the Armor is suppose to stop them from being hit but it doesn't work sometimes, the retention holster is suppose to stop someone from getting their weapon and it doesn't work sometimes.

  6. #65
    Member Array SL1ckOne's Avatar
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    I have often thought of and even witnessed what the original poster described. When I was living in Michigan I often excercised my right to Open Carry. I know it's a can of worms but a personal preference at that. Needless to say, I always carried my M&P40 in a Blackhawk Serpa Level 2 Duty Holster or a Safariland Model 6360 Dual Retention holster. I felt that although the law didn't mandate a retention holster it was always in my best interest to have a little added security. Just my opinion.
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  7. #66
    VIP Member Array ron8903's Avatar
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    I use retention holsters for OC, But not for fearing someone will try
    to take my handgun, I OC while canoeing and fishing and if I take
    a spill my gear is retained and not on the bottom of the lake, river, stream.
    carracer, FTG-05 and mrkurt like this.
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  8. #67
    Ex Member Array lizjimbo's Avatar
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    I carry my SR40 when I am in the woods doing land surveying with my daughter. I have no idea what is in the woods besides bunnies, but it may be a rabid bunny for all I know. I don't like to open carry in a public place. I don't want the attention so if I feel a need to carry it will be concealed. I also use retention holsters but they are not fool proof either. The BG's don't need a baseball bat to catch me by surprise, just an expandable steel baton concealed in their pocket will do the trick. In other words I don't want anybody thinking they have to crack my head open if they want to steal my exposed an open firearm.

  9. #68
    Member Array jbglock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 40Bob View Post
    How many people here have actually HAD someone go for their gun? I guarantee it will be the fight of your life. Cops get killed frequently because they are disarmed using retention holsters, I have seen the holster fail, and the BG gets gun, holster and all......You may have time to react, maybe not.

    Teen homicide suspects have criminal histories | Richmond Times-Dispatch

    Unarmed man attempts to rob EMU student of holstered gun

    Man Legally Carrying Gun Robbed at Gunpoint - TODAY'S TMJ4

    And one for testing your rig.

    Torture testing your holster
    Frequently is a bit of an exaggeration don't you think? Cops have been killed and yeah any holster can be defeated but I think retention has been taught for a long time in BLET and it comes up still from time to time in my in service even. It was a training issue and it's the reason I carry a knife. Otherwise I can think of no other reason (for me) to have a knife on me on duty.

  10. #69
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    I recommend a retention holster for OC.

    But, if I wasn't wearing one, I would about guarantee you, you'ld never get my gun. ... no matter how sneaky you thought you were. I'ld let you get your hand on it, then we'll see if you ever get it out of the holster.

    There is more to retention than a retention holster, and many different techniques to retention. Many of us could pull your gun out of YOUR retention holster just as fast as you could.

    When I open carried, I also had a gun concealed on the other side.... if you touched that gun, you'ld have another in your face before it ever got out of the holster, or could ever use it. I never have my back to anyone , for any reason... concealed/open doesn't matter. There are alot of techniques out there that have nothing to do with your type of holster ..... good to learn a few of them if you carry anything at all.

    What if someone realizes you have a conceal carry, jump you behind... taking you to the floor and the first thing they grab for on your way down is try to grab your gun....... then what ......

    My .02 cents.
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  11. #70
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    i would hope even someone with a ton of confidence would use a holster with some kind of retention system. But, some prefer not to i guess. I myself being new to owning my own, and open carrying, have made my OC holster a Blackhawk Serpa holster. I love it, and love that my trigger finger doesnt change position while unlocking and drawing unless going onto the trigger itself.

  12. #71
    Member Array FUZZ's Avatar
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    I made a comment once on this forum about the responsibility of the carrier to use some sort of active retention with his/her holster to reduce the risk of someone grabbing your firearm when you're OCing. I got lambasted by a handful of members. Mostly about 'Its not my responsibility to control the actions of others, blah blah blah'. I still think that if you're going to open carry, its a considered, intelligent and proactive decision to wear a holster with some sort of retention.

    If I open carry (usually hiking, camping, fishing, range, etc.) I carry at least a level II holster. Its all about reducing risk. After all, isn't that a part of the underlying reason for carrying a firearm in the first place?
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  13. #72
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FUZZ View Post
    I made a comment once on this forum about the responsibility of the carrier to use some sort of active retention with his/her holster to reduce the risk of someone grabbing your firearm when you're OCing. I got lambasted by a handful of members. Mostly about 'Its not my responsibility to control the actions of others, blah blah blah'. I still think that if you're going to open carry, its a considered, intelligent and proactive decision to wear a holster with some sort of retention.

    If I open carry (usually hiking, camping, fishing, range, etc.) I carry at least a level II holster. Its all about reducing risk. After all, isn't that a part of the underlying reason for carrying a firearm in the first place?
    I could have been one of those who responded to that post. If so it wasn't because i do not agree that a retention holster is a good idea under certain circumstances so much as the idea that a person is responsible for the illegal acts of strangers. Its the idea of blaming the victim. I agree that theft protection is a good idea. I disagree with the idea that it is a responsibility.

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  14. #73
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    The select few times I have open carried I have not done so in an active retention holster only because I didn't have one at the time. And consequently, I HATED putting my back to ANYONE.

    No, a holster with a retention device didn't solve that either. Why bother grabbing the gun when someone can grab a rock, beam you upside the head and take all the time he needs to figure out your retention device?

    In the link that was provided the criminal attacked the guy and in the process of searching him found and took the gun. The attack was already made. The same thing has happened to police officers with devastating results.

    There are stories out there of armed people who were concealed carrying who have been robbed without violence (only the threat of violence) and have given up their wallets, etc, and the criminal left thinking that was all there was to get and the individual decided their wallet, etc, was not worth a life so did not reveal they were armed.

    On the other hand there are examples of criminals seeing a gun, wanting it and immediately inflicting DEVASTATING violence to make sure the carrier was not capable of arming himself.

    I've seen at least two police videos to that effect.

    Anyone who open carries and does not at least recognize the potential that their firearm could INCITE violence vs deter it is, in my humble opinion, a fool.

    If you choose to acknowledge that risk and still open carry, that is your choice but you can't say it's not a potential that should be thought about and prepared against.

    Yes, the same immediate and devastating violence can happen to anyone, open or concealed, but I think it has a higher potential of happening to those who go around openly armed because there is a fear of the armed individual having even the slightest opportunity to use said arms.

    That being said, retention devises have saved lives.

    I'll try to find the dash cam video on youtube.

    Police officer made a routine stop. The driver immediately shot the officer in the face the moment he arrived at the driver's door.

    The officer was not dead and crawled to the back of the car where he passed out.

    The offender got out of the car and attempted to shoot the officer point-blank in the head. When his gun failed to work he tried to get the officer's gun. He couldn't get it out of the holster and the tugging and pulling woke the officer who began to fight back. The criminal then started to beat the officer with his jammed gun.

    They fought for a few moments and then the criminal ran back and got in his car, the officer was able then to draw his firearm and emptied his magazine into the fleeing car.

    The officer made a full recovery and the bad guy was caught.

    Had the officer not had a retention device on his firearm the criminal would have undoubtedly gotten it out of the holster and used it against the officer.

    I am 100% for retention devices on openly carried firearms. I would not go as far as to make it a law but I think it is well advised. I do not think it is as critical on concealed carry firearms but I don't think it's a bad idea there either.

    It's logical to assume that more open carriers may be potentially targeted for their firearms than concealed carriers by the very nature of their openness. It makes sense then to at least have one more step of protection to keep that firearm in its proper place.

  15. #74
    Member Array mg27's Avatar
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    Not to smart to carry without good retention for many reasons, Id like to keep mine from falling out first of all, and second of all I wouldn't want someone wacked out on some drug to try to steal it or use it on me or others.. Im just not a fan of Oc but I support it and if that was my only option, I think I would OC....

  16. #75
    Ex Member Array ArmyMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideandshoot View Post
    First I'm new to the forum. I've been a gun owner for 32 years. I've spent some time reading here and generally it seems like the members are pretty thoughtful. I registered to ask the question below.

    First some background on me so you know where I'm coming from. I believe that carrying a firearm is not just a right but a responsibility in free society. I carry every time I leave the house unless I have to go somewhere where I can not carry. Generally that means work.

    The discussion about the guy open carrying at the theater brought this experience back. Here is the description of the situation I witnessed.

    A few weeks ago I walked into the local Auto Zone. I noticed an individual carrying openly. I'm not sure what brand but it was a kydex belt holster. There were multiple individuals in line a behind him. The nearest at arms length. I was a few people back. I looked as closely as I could and I am 99% sure that there was no retention with the holster. He was carrying just aft of his right hip. The guy behind him could have grabbed his gun before he knew what had happened. Sorry but even a ninja couldn't realize what was happening fast enough to get a hand down to stop it.

    Here is the question. If you carry openly do you use a retention holster to keep someone from grabbing your gun? Something like a blackhawk or safariland level two retention perhaps?

    Personally I'm a CC carry advocate. I am careful to avoid 'printing' and no one but my family and closest friends know that I carry. That said I support your right to carry openly. BUT... I'm going be bold here and state that open carry, in an open top holster, without retention, in an an environment where close proximity of strangers is unavoidable, is asking for trouble. Either in the form of a stolen gun or worse a stolen gun followed by a shooting.
    Those of us who use those holsters...there's a part of us just waiting for someone to try and grab the gun....daring them to....

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