Question for Open Carriers...

Question for Open Carriers...

This is a discussion on Question for Open Carriers... within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; First I'm new to the forum. I've been a gun owner for 32 years. I've spent some time reading here and generally it seems like ...

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  1. #1
    New Member Array rideandshoot's Avatar
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    Angry Question for Open Carriers...

    First I'm new to the forum. I've been a gun owner for 32 years. I've spent some time reading here and generally it seems like the members are pretty thoughtful. I registered to ask the question below.

    First some background on me so you know where I'm coming from. I believe that carrying a firearm is not just a right but a responsibility in free society. I carry every time I leave the house unless I have to go somewhere where I can not carry. Generally that means work.

    The discussion about the guy open carrying at the theater brought this experience back. Here is the description of the situation I witnessed.

    A few weeks ago I walked into the local Auto Zone. I noticed an individual carrying openly. I'm not sure what brand but it was a kydex belt holster. There were multiple individuals in line a behind him. The nearest at arms length. I was a few people back. I looked as closely as I could and I am 99% sure that there was no retention with the holster. He was carrying just aft of his right hip. The guy behind him could have grabbed his gun before he knew what had happened. Sorry but even a ninja couldn't realize what was happening fast enough to get a hand down to stop it.

    Here is the question. If you carry openly do you use a retention holster to keep someone from grabbing your gun? Something like a blackhawk or safariland level two retention perhaps?

    Personally I'm a CC carry advocate. I am careful to avoid 'printing' and no one but my family and closest friends know that I carry. That said I support your right to carry openly. BUT... I'm going be bold here and state that open carry, in an open top holster, without retention, in an an environment where close proximity of strangers is unavoidable, is asking for trouble. Either in the form of a stolen gun or worse a stolen gun followed by a shooting.
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Array Crescentstar's Avatar
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    I have seen this before. Open carry, concealed carry, just carry, but do it safely and responsibly. A retention holster is a must for OC.
    "Clearly that's a YOU problem not a ME problem."

  3. #3
    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    we don't have open carry in Texas yet and not sure if we ever will but I can understand the usefulness of the convenience but like you I lack to see a need for carrying in a highly populated location

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    While I'm very pleased that the new Oklahoma open carry law did not include a mandatory provision for retention holsters I do believe they are a good idea for a pure open carry holster.Michael
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  5. #5
    Member Array framedcraig1's Avatar
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    Yeah...I'm with you on this. Open carry, one in the pipe, is good to go here in Utah. Would I...Nope. Some folks think that it's a public statement of some kind..and if its good for them fine. Me...Every cop I know...and I know a bunch...has a retention device on his holster. Like you say, any dip could try to out draw you with you own gun. Not for me.
    All men are equal...CC makes us equal-er.

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideandshoot View Post

    Here is the question. If you carry openly do you use a retention holster to keep someone from grabbing your gun? Something like a blackhawk or safariland level two retention perhaps?

    Personally I'm a CC carry advocate. I am careful to avoid 'printing' and no one but my family and closest friends know that I carry. That said I support your right to carry openly. BUT... I'm going be bold here and state that open carry, in an open top holster, without retention, in an an environment where close proximity of strangers is unavoidable, is asking for trouble. Either in the form of a stolen gun or worse a stolen gun followed by a shooting.
    First, welcome to the site. I hope this isn't the single time we hear from you.

    Next, I agree. I am a big OC proponent but I do not OC unless I am using an active retention holster. I like the SERPA but I have others. I'm taking a liking to the "Thumbdrive" holsters lately as well.

    OC takes a higher level of SA than CC in my opinion and I think it is simply an extension of that to use a level II retention holster or greater.
    Last edited by OD*; August 13th, 2012 at 10:04 AM.
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  7. #7
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    This "someone will take your gun" concept has gone on forever. Could it happen? Yes. Does it happen? Well, does it? Or, the BGs will target you. Could it happen? Yes. Does it happen? Well, does it? I'm sure somewhere sometime someone has had a firearm yanked from a OC holster, or likewise some BG has targeted the OC'er. But CC'ers get robbed too, and CC'ers have had to hand over guns to BGs too. So is the OC'er at any higher risk for either of the above?

    I think it's far more likely that the BGs will wait until the OC'er is gone from their potential crime scene rather than risk getting blown away by some OC'er who can handle a firearm. Really, who knowingly wants to take on an armed man? I wouldn't if I had any other options.

    So, if you feel you must have retention, do so. Otherwise, let's not worry about what everyone else does. Besides, the BG will obviously steal the non-retention gun and leave yours alone.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth

  8. #8
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    While I normally CC if I did OC I would prefer to use some type of retention holster but that is my personal preference.
    When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk.
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  9. #9
    Member Array azretired's Avatar
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    I agree with the OP, no one but me is aware I am armed when I'm out. That said, a quality Kydex holster would be very difficult to draw from except as intended. Straight up.

  10. #10
    Ex Member Array F350's Avatar
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    I OC every day in a plain Jane open top 3 slot leather pancake holster, I use the slots that give a 45* forward cant and keep the butt under my right elbow. When I worked at a gun shop/indoor range for practice I had a couple of the other guys try a rear grab, with the forward cant it is VERY difficult to do and under the elbow not too difficult to defend.
    Last edited by F350; August 13th, 2012 at 05:50 AM.
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  11. #11
    VIP Member Array Badey's Avatar
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    When I OC I use a level II retention holster.
    Though defensive violence will always be a sad necessity in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men -St. Augustine

  12. #12
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    I don't use a retention holster, but my holsters are all forward canted. You can not just grab and pull up to remove the gun. Anyone attempting to remove my gun without my permission, will be eating an elbow.
    Freedom doesn't come free. It is bought and paid for by the lives and blood of our men and women in uniform.

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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    I don't use a retention holster, but my holsters are all forward canted. You can not just grab and pull up to remove the gun. Anyone attempting to remove my gun without my permission, will be eating an elbow.
    All my carry holsters feature a 20-degree forward cant, as well with no retention devices. There is only one direction in which the gun will exit the holster.
    "If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast."
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  14. #14
    Senior Member Array ep1953's Avatar
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    I open carry very rarely but when I do it is in a retention holster. It just makes sense to me.

    Welcome to the forum.

  15. #15
    Member Array SandWMandP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    This "someone will take your gun" concept has gone on forever. Could it happen? Yes. Does it happen? Well, does it? Or, the BGs will target you. Could it happen? Yes. Does it happen? Well, does it? I'm sure somewhere sometime someone has had a firearm yanked from a OC holster, or likewise some BG has targeted the OC'er. But CC'ers get robbed too, and CC'ers have had to hand over guns to BGs too. So is the OC'er at any higher risk for either of the above?

    I think it's far more likely that the BGs will wait until the OC'er is gone from their potential crime scene rather than risk getting blown away by some OC'er who can handle a firearm. Really, who knowingly wants to take on an armed man? I wouldn't if I had any other options.

    So, if you feel you must have retention, do so. Otherwise, let's not worry about what everyone else does. Besides, the BG will obviously steal the non-retention gun and leave yours alone.
    It only takes one time for it to go from a "could" to a "did." And then if it does your life, the lives of friends and loved one who you carry to protect, and the lives of innocent bystander are in danger. There is a reason why cops carry in level 2 and level 3 holsters.

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