An OC'er looking for a confrontation!!!! Surely not. Great Officer response.

This is a discussion on An OC'er looking for a confrontation!!!! Surely not. Great Officer response. within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Soooooo walking around with a mp5 look alike weapon, while you and your friend are filming with cameras. *Sarcasm On* Nope don't see anything here ...

Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst 123456 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 98
Like Tree144Likes

Thread: An OC'er looking for a confrontation!!!! Surely not. Great Officer response.

  1. #16
    Member Array Ramen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    167
    Soooooo walking around with a mp5 look alike weapon, while you and your friend are filming with cameras.

    *Sarcasm On*

    Nope don't see anything here that shows these guys where baiting for a negative response.


    *Sarcasm Off*

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #17
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    26,021
    Quote Originally Posted by sgb View Post
    166.172¹ Authority of city to regulate discharge of firearms ...
    The original reference I provided is correct: ORS 166.272 Unlawful possession of machine guns, certain short-barreled firearms and firearms silencers.

    Unfortunately, your latest reply selected a subsequent post in which I'd mistakenly fat-fingered the number (.172, instead of .272, the correct number). Corrections in the latter post have been made. But the original statutory reference is correct, and it answers your question. A person having an NFA item in Oregon is required to have proof of lawful possession when in possession of that item.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  4. #18
    VIP Member Array 357and40's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    St. Charles, Missouri
    Posts
    2,285
    SGB I am trying to understand where it is an issue when you are being obvious in trying to bait an officer on camera by OCing something that looks a lot like a fully automatic weapon and giving him reasonable suspicion that he has no right to take a moment of your time to ask you to show him that you are obeying the law. You asked for statute and ccw9mm gave you the statute that illustrates the regulation of the type of firearm this guy was being investigated over. Take the moment to go look up the statute on obeying the lawful order of a police officer or would you like ccw9mm to do that for you also...

    As ccw9mm stated very clearly, how can the officer know if you are obeying the law if he does not ask to see proper ID? IF you deal with a traffic stop expect to be asked for proof of ID and insurance. The cop is not going to just take your word for it. This was a request in the course of an investigation for purposes of investigating the validity of the claim of a citizen. He protected this morons rights.

    The officer in this was very professional, knowledgeable, and courteous. This kid and his friend went cruising looking to provoke a police officer into a confrontation and he ended up looking like the idiot he is.
    40Bob, kb2wji and thephanatik like this.
    "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain."
    - Roy Batty

  5. #19
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    TX/NH
    Posts
    5,814
    I don't know where SGBg is going with this. I am ardent supporter of OC and I think the LEO handled it perfectly. There was a MWAG call. The officer didn't just decide to stop the individual on his own. Just as if someone were stopped for a broken tailight. The officer is now investigating. If the idiot was carrying a AR (which is a common rifle folks by) he might or might not have asked to see if it was select fire or not. From where he was he most likely could tell by visual.

    Since it is very unusual to see what looks to be an MP5 the officer I feel was well in his right to ask to see it to confirm if it was authentic.

    Back to the traffic stop...if the officer, who now has pulled you over for a legitimate reason, sees what appears to be a real gun (we will say a Glock) in your car he has the right at that point to ask if it is real, if you have a permit, and to inspect it if your answer is it is a toy.
    kb2wji likes this.

  6. #20
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    North Georgia
    Posts
    6,982
    Awesome Police officer! While that DA taints what a law abiding gun owner is all about IMO, that officer makes me have the utmost respect for both him and his office. If I was there on the sidelines, I would ask to shake the officers hand. After the officer left the scene, I would tell the idiot what I thought of his baiting tactic.
    ericb327 likes this.
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." – Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." – Thomas Jefferson

  7. #21
    Member Array CPanther95's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    237
    This is exactly why I could never be a cop. I'm ardently pro-2A, and pro-OC - and while I appreciate the cop's temperament, professionalism and knowledge of the law, part of me wishes there was an objective "button pushing" exception for idiots like this that would allow him to duct tape the guy to a light pole for no more than 60 minutes. He crossed over the line from filming how the cops would handle the encounter to forcing the cop to jump through every possible hoop. A professional encounter wasn't enough, he wanted to waste the cop's time by making him prove that he knew the law.

    This reminds me of the idiots that used to get in the left lane of the interstate and set their cruise control at 55 mph to prove a point - except this guy would be the one setting it at the minimum speed of 40 mph.

  8. #22
    VIP Member
    Array tacman605's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Arkansas/On the X in Afghanistan
    Posts
    3,031
    SGB not sure where you are going with this either but ccw9mm provided statutes for it.

    I will go one step further to merely possess, not just carry, an automatic weapon or NFA item you must be able to provide documentation when demanded "AT THAT TIME" not wait a minute let me go get it. Even when I was in LE when I took the departments Glock 18 to a public range I had to have a copy of the paperwork with me even being tactical officer it was issued to.

    Yes you are right and AR can loook like an M4, An M1 carbine can look like an M2 and so on. There are semi auto copies of everything nowadays. Unless the officer stops and checks, especially after being dispatched, what would you have them do? The officer is totally within the law to use that as PC for stopping to check the weapon if he saw fit. The officer responded to a dispatched call for service, he observed what could possibly be an automatic weapon and simply using his experience determined that it was not, how difficult is that?

    The pics you used were rather deceiving. Yes they are both HK's one being an MP5 and one an HK 94 but they are intentionally manufactured with different barrel lengths to meet legal requirements. Other than that they are the same except for the fire control group and even those with interchange.

    Try these.

    Belt fed 1919 or a semi auto copy?

    1919tripod.jpg

    Open Bolt MAC 10 subgun or a semi auto pistol version? Again guns are exactly the same except for internals.

    MAC 10.jpg

    You want to use HK's as an example try this one. Full auto HK MP5K or a semi auto SP89? Both guns are exactly the same except for the internal fire control parts and the fire control group/safety.

    HK SP 89.jpg

    Now by statute if these were full auto you would have to have on your person the paperwork to back it up. How is the officer going to know what it is unless he asks?

    You are simply looking for an argument but have no basis for it. It was a legal stop, he did what he needed, and the young man did not get his confrontation.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  9. #23
    Member Array nlghthawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    114
    I can appreciate that people will do this to shed light on abuse of powers from police. It forces municipalities to better educate their officers so acceptance is the norm, and ignorance doesn't prevail.

    Excellent response from the officer...thank you.

  10. #24
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    texas
    Posts
    15,177
    By Law anytime you have an NFA weapon in your possession either SBR,Suppressor,or FA,you are required to have the tax stamp available for proof that it is a registered item.
    And the GSG5 has a barrel shroud that looks a lot like a suppressor so if you wanta walk around with a gun that looks like it could be a class 3 weapon IMHO you are trolling for a public reaction.
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  11. #25
    Senior Moderator
    Array pgrass101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    13,451
    There is a fine line between trying to prove a point and being a horses arse, these guys crossed it and the officer is an example of good law enforcement
    “You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”

    ― Robert A. Heinlein,

  12. #26
    Senior Moderator
    Array HotGuns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    14,840
    Now I am going to throw a brick into all of these arguments.

    Technically, the only officer that has the legal right to demand inspection of a Tax Stamp is an officer of the BATFE.

    Technically, the police officer is only certified for the state that he is in.

    Technically, the officer is under no imperative to enforce Federal Laws or codes, only state laws.

    While any officer can ask to see the Form 4 to prove ownership of a Class 3 weapons, technically the person being asked does not have to do so and a lot of the people that are into the NFA world know this.

    Since the ownership of any NFA weapon is proved by a tax stamp...then an officer asking for a tax stamp for a gun would be no diffferent than an officer asking for your federal tax records that is under the juristiction of the IRS.

    How many of you would show your tax records to an officer that asked for them?

    That is all that a Form 4 is. A record showing that you paid a federal tax to own an NFA item. Nothing more, nothing less.

    With that being said...
    lets imagine for a moment that the punk was carrying a class 3 (select fire) MP5.

    If the cop requested to see it, all that he could legally do is report the case to the BATFE and hand it off to them if there was any dispute because it is not his jurisdiction. This is actually a common practice with LE, to call the Feds when in doubt. Its the very reason that the BATFE has a number of agents in each state, to assist local LE in these matters. If the local Feds cant handle it, they call in the rest of the troops that brings the full wrath of the U.S. Government.

    The cop featured in the video, knew more than the average cop about the NFA process. Fact is, most of them dont have a clue. I know that none of the cops around here carry supporting paperwork with them, that is a function and responsibility of the Training Officer to keep the paperwork in order and its kept in a locked safe at the station.



    So there ya have it. The officer did a great job maintaining control and he possess the BS skills that make his job easier.

    Even so, I'd have run him as I do with most contacts.
    Spidey2011 likes this.
    The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it...- George Orwell

    AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
    Like custom guns and stuff? Check this out...
    http://bobbailey1959.wordpress.com/

  13. #27
    VIP Member
    Array sigmanluke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    3,209
    I'd say this officer did a fine job handling this situation. I'll admit, I don't know a lot about the BATFE and NFA regulations.....I don't have to. As HotGuns already stated, it's not my jurisdiction. If I have an "encounter" with an armed citizen who's carrying what visually appears to be a class 3 weapon, you better believe I have RAS to detain the individual and check the gun.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
    Thomas Jefferson

  14. #28
    Distinguished Member Array SCXDm9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Columbia, SC
    Posts
    1,259
    I woould love to find this guys youtube site and flood him the same crap he was throwing at the officer. If I see this guy in my neighbor hood, I'm calling the cops!

  15. #29
    Ex Member Array pir8fan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Mooresville, NC
    Posts
    373
    First rate job by Officer Nork. This should be used by all law enforcement as an example of the right way to do things.

  16. #30
    VIP Member Array Thunder71's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Minnesota, USA
    Posts
    2,508
    Ahh, yet another person 'looking for a confrontation' by doing legal things.

    Officer conducted himself well, however.

Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst 123456 ... LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

cop's expert open carry response goes viral
,
forums.officer speeding to er
,
nork 1911
,
powered by mybb business in north carolina
,
powered by mybb business law
,
powered by mybb carolina state
,

powered by mybb class action lawsuit

,
powered by mybb emergency room
,
powered by mybb federal agriculture
,
powered by mybb oklahoma state
,
powered by mybb oregon state
,
powered by mybb safe auto
,

powered by mybb state of oregon

,

powered by mybb sun tzu art of war

,

powered by mybb the art of happiness

Click on a term to search for related topics.