Inviting A “Stop and Frisk” By Openly Carrying - Page 4

Inviting A “Stop and Frisk” By Openly Carrying

This is a discussion on Inviting A “Stop and Frisk” By Openly Carrying within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I get so sick and tired of these discussions. What the guy did was stupid and harmful to those of us that exercise our rights ...

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Thread: Inviting A “Stop and Frisk” By Openly Carrying

  1. #46
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    I get so sick and tired of these discussions. What the guy did was stupid and harmful to those of us that exercise our rights to actually defend ourselves and not make political points. Then we get the inevitable "He was within the law, he did nothing wrong" defense. What is overlooked is the real damage that is done to our future ability to enjoy those rights. When enough people are offended by, or scared by, the idiots doing these things we're done. The 2nd Amendment can be amended out of our Constitution. Just ask the people in CA how their open carry demonstrations worked out. If these bags of feminine washing liquid get their way we'll all be in the same boat soon.
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  2. #47
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mlr1m
    Unlike the bull or the bear a police officer is supposed to only enforce actual laws. He should not enforce his feelings for teaching someone a lesson.
    We either want a Government that obeys the laws the same as its citizens are supposed to do or do we want a Government that is above the laws it is sworn to uphold.

    Michael
    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    And where in this case did anyone run afoul of that?

    I'm not really seeing where anyone's rights were violated. A guy went out of his way to seek attention (not his first or last time, and his permit has since been revoked and last I heard he lost his appeal on that one too.) was checked out, and was free to go with his gun...

    What exactly was the point of injustice or where laws were violated/disobeyed and not upheld?
    I was merely pointing out the problem with the argument that people deserve what they get when doing something stupid. That the Government must follow the rules when giving folks what they deserve. If stupid is not against a law the Government should have no power to do anything. This is all I am saying. The guy was a fool we can all agree. Where some of us seem to disagree is whether or not the Government should involve itself before a law is broken. If it should be able to punish people who do stupid thing we do not like in absence of a law.

    Michael

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    I was merely pointing out the problem with the argument that people deserve what they get when doing something stupid. That the Government must follow the rules when giving folks what they deserve. If stupid is not against a law the Government should have no power to do anything. This is all I am saying. The guy was a fool we can all agree. Where some of us seem to disagree is whether or not the Government should involve itself before a law is broken. If it should be able to punish people who do stupid thing we do not like in absence of a law.

    Michael
    OK, on that we agree, it sounded as if you were implying that the officers in question acted outside their official capacity to due to some personal bias and were operating outside the scope of the law.

    From the text of the court document, I would say that was not the case.


  4. #49
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echo_Four View Post
    I get so sick and tired of these discussions. What the guy did was stupid and harmful to those of us that exercise our rights to actually defend ourselves and not make political points. Then we get the inevitable "He was within the law, he did nothing wrong" defense. What is overlooked is the real damage that is done to our future ability to enjoy those rights. When enough people are offended by, or scared by, the idiots doing these things we're done. The 2nd Amendment can be amended out of our Constitution. Just ask the people in CA how their open carry demonstrations worked out. If these bags of feminine washing liquid get their way we'll all be in the same boat soon.
    I cannot force others to refrain from doing stupid things. What is the remedy if the person was not breaking any law?

    Michael

  5. #50
    JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    I cannot force others to refrain from doing stupid things. What is the remedy if the person was not breaking any law?

    Michael
    Here's a hint.




  6. #51
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    ^^^^ Nope...

    Makes too much sense.
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  7. #52
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    OK, on that we agree, it sounded as if you were implying that the officers in question acted outside their official capacity to due to some personal bias and were operating outside the scope of the law.

    From the text of the court document, I would say that was not the case.

    I am not the best at putting my thoughts to text. Yes I do agree with you. Basically what I am trying to remind folks is that we need to beware of what we ask for. We might not like the results.

    Michael

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    I am not the best at putting my thoughts to text. Yes I do agree with you. Basically what I am trying to remind folks is that we need to beware of what we ask for. We might not like the results.

    Michael
    I don't think anyone is calling for legislative action to rectify this issue.

    As mentioned all ready, actions have been taken in TN to remove Embody's permit to carry, that's good enough for me at the moment.

  9. #54
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    Here's a hint.



    I have no problem with the bat so long as its not the Government holding it. Good old peer pressure in action.

    Michael
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  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkh View Post
    I don't even understand your point so I don't know how to answer you. I do know that as gun owners we have an obligation to not be stupid.
    My point was that your previous post implied that you are in favor of punishing someone for doing something that is in the opinion of some random person stupid or scary. That is minority report stuff...punishing someone for what you think they might do in the future and not their actions.

    Also, we as gun owners have no obligation to anyone to do anything. Do drivers have an obligation to be courteous on the road? Nope. If they break the law they are punished...I fail to see how gun owners are any different. You are not obligated to anyone to do anything, unless of course you choose to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Echo_Four View Post
    I get so sick and tired of these discussions. What the guy did was stupid and harmful to those of us that exercise our rights to actually defend ourselves and not make political points. Then we get the inevitable "He was within the law, he did nothing wrong" defense. What is overlooked is the real damage that is done to our future ability to enjoy those rights. When enough people are offended by, or scared by, the idiots doing these things we're done. The 2nd Amendment can be amended out of our Constitution. Just ask the people in CA how their open carry demonstrations worked out. If these bags of feminine washing liquid get their way we'll all be in the same boat soon.
    The problem I see is that gun owners feel the need to throw each other under the bus or hang each other out to dry because they fear the repercussions. Is it or is it not a right? You are treating gun ownership like it is a privilege that can be removed at any time. It isn't. You might not agree with what this guy did, and you are certainly entitled to your opinion. My opinion is that any forward thinking gun owner should probably stand up and defend this guys right to do exactly what he did. Freedom also means having the freedom to make bad decisions and decisions others don't agree with.

  11. #56
    Distinguished Member Array SCXDm9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    Basically what I am trying to remind folks is that we need to beware of what we ask for. We might not like the results.

    Michael
    That we can agree on... but I'm on the other side than you. Imagine anyone can walk around with what ever they want... not just the people you like and trust.


    To a larger point, does the 2nd amd. say only honest good people have the right to bare arms?



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  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    I cannot force others to refrain from doing stupid things. What is the remedy if the person was not breaking any law?

    Michael
    Do common sense / common courtesy pills exist? Or maybe in this guys case, a common sense IV drip?

  13. #58
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mlr1m
    Basically what I am trying to remind folks is that we need to beware of what we ask for. We might not like the results.

    Michael
    Quote Originally Posted by SCXDm9 View Post
    That we can agree on... but I'm on the other side than you. Imagine anyone can walk around with what ever they want... not just the people you like and trust.


    To a larger point, does the 2nd amd. say only honest good people have the right to bare arms?



    Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2
    I do not have to imagine it. That is the way it is. In the absence of a law prohibiting something a person is free to do whatever they like. Are you asking for more laws or just that the Government be given the power to prevent other folks from doing things we don't agree with?

    Michael

  14. #59
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kb2wji View Post
    Do common sense / common courtesy pills exist? Or maybe in this guys case, a common sense IV drip?
    I have to agree with this. People now days seem to want to constantly push others folks buttons in an attempt to provoke a reaction. It went on when I was growing up in the fifties and sixties but not to the extreme it does now. Least it seems worse now.
    Common courtesy is slipping away and being replaced with personal gratification. The Government however is not the answer.

    Michael

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ionracas View Post
    I find myself agreeing with you on this.

    Regarding your NRA stratedgy, unfortunatley it dose not help that many gun owners are for restrictions to a degree. Hunters who are against CC/OCing, gun owners who think that we should have some guns but others like AKs or Mac 10's serve no purpose, etc.

    If we can not all be on the same page or support the ones who support our rights, then what good is any fight?

    While I am the type who dosnt like attention, I think OCers and maybe even the guy in this story stand taller than most of us. Provided they are not breaking any laws or being stupid of course.

    Lenny is one of the stupid ones. Watch some his videos. He is constantly tempting fate.

    Then again, he singlehandedly got a Costco in Mid TN posted.
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