OC Baiter hit my town!

This is a discussion on OC Baiter hit my town! within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; You are fortunate to live in a state that is pro 2A. Idiots like that are the reason they take rights away from the rest ...

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Thread: OC Baiter hit my town!

  1. #46
    Member Array SFCDan's Avatar
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    You are fortunate to live in a state that is pro 2A. Idiots like that are the reason they take rights away from the rest of us.
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  3. #47
    Member Array _Hawkeye_'s Avatar
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    Watched the video. The guy is a baiter no doubt. But it appears at least at the beginning the cop is wrong. You don't have to just give your id to a cop for no reason in this state. The proper course of action would be for the cops to drive by, observe and see if he appears to be breaking any laws.

    As far as his swapping back and forth between holsters it is not on video. So I have no opinion. But being handcuffed and searched to simply see if he is a felon is not ok.
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  4. #48
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mlr1m
    I regularly wear a firearm when I take my exercise walks around town. If I started carrying a small camera would I suddenly become someone just out to start trouble?

    Michael
    Quote Originally Posted by pittypat21 View Post
    An exercise walk isn't aimless; that's not what I'm referring to. No need to take offense. Walking your dog, exercising, etc., that's all different. You know what your intentions are. We're talking about baiters - that alone is what I'm referring to.
    No offense taken. Merely pointing out that it is not always easy to determine if a person is baiting or not. The idea that everyone who carries a camera is looking for trouble is like saying that anyone who carries a weapon must be looking for trouble as well. I have already met people here in Oklahoma who have told me that anyone who open carries when our new OC law goes into effect later this year will only be doing it to cause trouble.

    I agree that baiting makes us all look bad. The problem is who gets to decide if a person is doing it? Personally I would not trust the majority of local cops in my area with that decision.

    Michael

  5. #49
    VIP Member Array pittypat21's Avatar
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    The camera isn't really the determining factor - just commonly used by baiters. Sorry if my comment made it seem that I was placing emphasis on the camera.

    And its easy to tell which ones are baiters - you'll find their video on youtube!

    But on a serious note, I love open carrying. Its a lot more convenient at times, and I always OC in my car and home. I dont usually OC when I go places with a lot of people (wal-mart, the mall, etc), just cause the more people that are around, the more likely it is for someone to notice and get upset and call the police or some other equally stupid reaction. But the difference between me and a baiter is that if I am stopped by police (even if they have no right to) I'm going to comply and show them my ID and weapons carry license so we can all be on our way quickly. I won't be repeatedly asking if I'm being detained, quoting laws and statutes, and making a simple situation last half an hour for no reason. Like I said before, I've got better ways to waste my time!
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  6. #50
    VIP Member Array SmokinFool's Avatar
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    A lot has to do with how you carry yourself, as well as your gun. As I mentioned in a recent thread I have been OCing more lately. I holstered up with my G23 in a Serpa today and went to Tractor Supply to get a couple 50 lb bags of grass seed they had on sale. I didn't make a big deal out of carrying, and no one seemed to even notice, not even the gal who rang me up. There was also a county LEO in the store whom I passed by to get to the seed. We exchange a quick "hello" and went our separate ways. He never did or said anything to me about me open carrying.
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  7. #51
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    Baiters hang big-time. Personally, I like it when they get hassled, and I think no one is more deserving of that inconvenience then the would be baiter. Poor little attention junkies; oh oh oh look at me, I'm on YouTube...
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." Thomas Jefferson

  8. #52
    Senior Member Array Bubbiesdad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    No offense taken. Merely pointing out that it is not always easy to determine if a person is baiting or not. The idea that everyone who carries a camera is looking for trouble is like saying that anyone who carries a weapon must be looking for trouble as well. I have already met people here in Oklahoma who have told me that anyone who open carries when our new OC law goes into effect later this year will only be doing it to cause trouble.

    I agree that baiting makes us all look bad. The problem is who gets to decide if a person is doing it? Personally I would not trust the majority of local cops in my area with that decision.

    Michael
    A good clue is the is the content of the video.

    Officer: "Sir, may I talk to you"?
    Baiter: "Am I being detained"?
    Officer:"I just need some information".
    Baiter:"I have my rights, under the 2nd, 4th and 5th Amendments".
    Officer:" I understand, but I have to find out if you are legally permitted to own that firearm".
    Baiter: "I don't consent"..........

    You get the idea.
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  9. #53
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbiesdad View Post
    A good clue is the is the content of the video.Officer: "Sir, may I talk to you"?Baiter: "Am I being detained"?Officer:"I just need some information".Baiter:"I have my rights, under the 2nd, 4th and 5th Amendments".Officer:" I understand, but I have to find out if you are legally permitted to own that firearm".Baiter: "I don't consent"..........You get the idea.
    +100 Agree.... It's too easy to tell if someone was baiting the officers, some just refuse to see it or don't really care to acknowledge the fact, or see anything wrong with it.... First dead giveaway.. If the one being questioned by the LEO is the one with the video device, BINGO! Second, if the individual begins sighting all the CC regulations like they have been well rehearsed, BINGO! If we need to go on with the clues, the game of BINGO is probably to complicated for um anyway...
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." Thomas Jefferson

  10. #54
    Distinguished Member Array ericb327's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Hawkeye_ View Post
    Watched the video. The guy is a baiter no doubt. But it appears at least at the beginning the cop is wrong. You don't have to just give your id to a cop for no reason in this state. The proper course of action would be for the cops to drive by, observe and see if he appears to be breaking any laws.

    As far as his swapping back and forth between holsters it is not on video. So I have no opinion. But being handcuffed and searched to simply see if he is a felon is not ok.
    The video corroborates what I have heard from the police. In the video the LEO finds two holsters and asks about a second firearm. You can also hear them communicating with dispatch to determine whether he has had a permit which he refused to produce. A must in KY if LE asks for it you must produce. The beginning of the encounter is not recorded. The first video from Newport Police also started in the same way. I hear from local LE that he was acted in a way raise suspicion and attention. When you are carrying a firearm openly and acting a certain way.... One could argue that you are inciting panic or guilty of disorderly conduct!
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  11. #55
    Distinguished Member Array ericb327's Avatar
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    It should be noted that he was stopped and recorded two videos of Bellevue PD and Newport PD on the same day.
    For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill. (Sun Tzu) The Art of War

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  12. #56
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    I agree that the baiting oc'ers give the rest of us a bad name. They are obviously looking for the "you tube stop" so why even accomodate them? If the leo know what these guys are doing and the reason for it I am just astounded that they fall for it nearly every time! If they would just do a drive by it would stop after awhile cuz it would be no fun for them. Especially when they are familiar with a particular individual due to previous stops. The leo are as much of this problem as the "you tube" oc'ers.

  13. #57
    VIP Member Array pittypat21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carracer View Post
    I agree that the baiting oc'ers give the rest of us a bad name. They are obviously looking for the "you tube stop" so why even accomodate them? If the leo know what these guys are doing and the reason for it I am just astounded that they fall for it nearly every time! If they would just do a drive by it would stop after awhile cuz it would be no fun for them. Especially when they are familiar with a particular individual due to previous stops. The leo are as much of this problem as the "you tube" oc'ers.
    I disagree here. While I'm sure that there are some LEOs out there that might do it just to harass people, I wouldn't put LEOs at fault, certainly not as much fault, as baiters. When a cop gets a call about a man acting suspiciously and that he's armed, they must investigate. They can't tell dispatch, "Naw, he's probably just baiting us. I think we'll ignore the call". They don't KNOW that everyone that's OCing is just a good citizen or a baiter. For all they know it could be somebody planning a mass murder and just spouts a bunch of legal crap to get them to leave him alone. LEOs must always treat every call with caution, even if it means listening to the barrage of irritating rehearsed crap from a baiter.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet."
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  14. #58
    Distinguished Member Array ericb327's Avatar
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    The problem is the baiters have an extremely bad attitude. The police respond to your attitude; now they want to find something illegal.

    Here's a thought.

    When an officer approaches to investigate. Give him pedigree info and a smile, he has to investigate whether he wants to or not. If you lead with court cases and amendment quotes and confrontational attitude things will go bad! I'm not saying to give up your rights, if you don't want to answer questions that don't pertain to their investigation then don't. Cooperating with LE does more for the OC cause than a planned confrontation! Video tape your compliance and respectful encounter. Then take it to the Chief of that department and present it to him. Then you can demand some answers and have meaningful dialogue with the guy in charge.

    I for one am proud to hand over my permit and pedigree info to the police. Why? Because they will find nothing; I have passed Federal and State background checks. I have never committed a any crime other than a traffic violation. Show them law abiding citizens are carrying and carrying responsibly. Having an argument with LE while armed is a recipe for disaster and quite stupid if you ask me. I saw a video with a guy OCing in an Alabama Hardee's. He and his wife get into a heated argument with a customer over the legality of his OC. Not a great display of conflict avoidance on his part and made he and his big mouth wife look like idiots.
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  15. #59
    Member Array LkWd_Don's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    It makes it hard to obey the law when those writing it are constantly making up new meanings for words. I don't doubt that someday saying gun will be brandishing.

    Michael
    Some states do not even use the term Brandishing anymore simply because there are so many conflicting views of what Brandishing is.
    Here in Washington State, RCW 9.41.270 Say's it pretty well.

    While OC'ing as long as the firearm is kept in the Holster, it is of no threat to anyone, therefore, LEO's have no reason to stop and interact as long as we are not specifically acting in a manner that disturbs others, causes others to believe we are up to no good or if we are in an area where firearms are restricted.

    If the firearm leaves the holster in public (is Drawn) and we are not about to use it in Self defense or the defense of others as outlined in Our Washington State Constitution or RCW 9A.16.020 "Use of force when lawful" RCW 9A.16.020: Use of force , then it is an act that can involve LEO interaction.

    RCW 9.41.270
    Weapons apparently capable of producing bodily harm -- Unlawful carrying or handling -- Penalty -- Exceptions.

    (1) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.
    (2) Any person violating the provisions of subsection (1) above shall be guilty of a gross misdemeanor. If any person is convicted of a violation of subsection (1) of this section, the person shall lose his or her concealed pistol license, if any. The court shall send notice of the revocation to the department of licensing, and the city, town, or county which issued the license.
    (3) Subsection (1) of this section shall not apply to or affect the following:

    (a) Any act committed by a person while in his or her place of abode or fixed place of business;

    (b) Any person who by virtue of his or her office or public employment is vested by law with a duty to preserve public safety, maintain public order, or to make arrests for offenses, while in the performance of such duty;

    (c) Any person acting for the purpose of protecting himself or herself against the use of presently threatened unlawful force by another, or for the purpose of protecting another against the use of such unlawful force by a third person;

    (d) Any person making or assisting in making a lawful arrest for the commission of a felony; or

    (e) Any person engaged in military activities sponsored by the federal or state governments.
    Lets Unite and REMIND our Government that WE are the source of their authority and that WE demand our Rights be returned, Unabridged, Non-infringed, without denial or disparagement.

  16. #60
    Member Array LkWd_Don's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericb327 View Post
    The problem is the baiters have an extremely bad attitude. The police respond to your attitude; now they want to find something illegal.

    Here's a thought.

    When an officer approaches to investigate. Give him pedigree info and a smile, he has to investigate whether he wants to or not. If you lead with court cases and amendment quotes and confrontational attitude things will go bad! I'm not saying to give up your rights, if you don't want to answer questions that don't pertain to their investigation then don't. Cooperating with LE does more for the OC cause than a planned confrontation! Video tape your compliance and respectful encounter. Then take it to the Chief of that department and present it to him. Then you can demand some answers and have meaningful dialogue with the guy in charge.

    I for one am proud to hand over my permit and pedigree info to the police. Why? Because they will find nothing; I have passed Federal and State background checks. I have never committed a any crime other than a traffic violation. Show them law abiding citizens are carrying and carrying responsibly. Having an argument with LE while armed is a recipe for disaster and quite stupid if you ask me. I saw a video with a guy OCing in an Alabama Hardee's. He and his wife get into a heated argument with a customer over the legality of his OC. Not a great display of conflict avoidance on his part and made he and his big mouth wife look like idiots.
    I both agree and disagree with what you are saying.

    I agree because I am also proud of my background and I am a Law Abiding citizen who will not go out intentionally trying to cause conflict or alarm in public to provoke an encounter with the Police.

    I disagree for the following reasons:
    * I see many (Not all) LEO's violating the rights of Citizens all the time, especially on TV shows like COPS. (see note #1 below)
    * LEO's frequently are not 100% truthful with you or with the Courts when they take action.
    * Anything you say "WILL" be used against you in court.

    So if an officer stops (Detains me) and starts asking me anything about ME in any manner that gives me an impression that I am being investigated, I opt not to say anything without my Attorney present. -- Not because I feel I am guilty, but because I do not want what I do say twisted into what they want it to be when it goes to Court.

    Now, if a LEO just happens to be crossing my path says hello, I will respond politely and if we get into a conversation where he is not asking me probing questions I will probably not clam/lawyer up. -- I know many of the local LEO's in my community and they see me OC'ing all the time, even in City Hall and I have yet to be approached or questioned by any of them over my OC.

    I am not saying that while sitting in the local Starbucks enjoying a cuppa coffee, I have not engaged in a conversation with local LEO's where we ended up talking from one table to another, them asking what piece I am carrying, how I like it, do I find it heavy.. etc. -- That type of thing has happened and both sides of the conversations have been very polite.

    This does not change my belief, that as soon as I feel a question is asked that gives me the idea that I am under investigation of anything, I will cease being open with my discussion and explain that I am not comfortable continuing the conversation without my Lawyer present and will ask if I am being detained. If I am told I am not, I will leave. If I am prevented from leaving, then I have proof that the LEO was lying to me and I was right to clam up.

    Notes
    #1 Sure, you will hear at the beginning of the Show that criminals (why did they even use that term?) portrayed are only suspects and are innocent until found guilty in a Court of Law. But watch and listen to how the Police treat them, what they say, how they will twist what is told to them even right after the incident when they are talking over their shoulder to the camera in the backseat. And know that the suspect is not in that car, the suspect of course is in a different car being transported.
    Lets Unite and REMIND our Government that WE are the source of their authority and that WE demand our Rights be returned, Unabridged, Non-infringed, without denial or disparagement.

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