OC Baiter hit my town! - Page 5

OC Baiter hit my town!

This is a discussion on OC Baiter hit my town! within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Bubbiesdad A good clue is the is the content of the video. Officer: "Sir, may I talk to you"? Baiter: "Am I ...

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  1. #61
    Ex Member Array F350's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbiesdad View Post
    A good clue is the is the content of the video.

    Officer: "Sir, may I talk to you"?
    Baiter: "Am I being detained"?
    Officer:"I just need some information".
    Baiter:"I have my rights, under the 2nd, 4th and 5th Amendments".
    Officer:" I understand, but I have to find out if you are legally permitted to own that firearm".
    Baiter: "I don't consent"..........

    You get the idea.
    Sure do, you think it would be OK for a cop to approach random individuals on the street, ask for ID and run wants & warrants to make sure the are legally allowed to be walking the streets and not wanted for anything right? Or stop random motorists to make sure they are legally allowed to drive, they aren't driving on a suspended license etc right? I mean the cop is just doing his job right?

    First off the officer does not have to be confrontational, any cop worth his salt can sum up a situation in an exchange of a half dozen sentences or so, I refer to this as a "bump" and have had a couple experiences while OCing. I use this term from shark behavior, a shark will often physically bump potential prey to judge it's reaction, is it an easy meal or likely to fight back? Victims of shark attacks often report feeling something bump them seconds before the bite; criminals do this with the "Got some spare change, got a cigarette, got a light" etc questions to gauge the person's reaction and decide weather to make their move or not, any show of weakness and they make their move, just like a shark.

    A cop can easily do the same thing, I call it a cop bump; a show of nervousness or evasiveness combined with training and experiences = RAS. I have had a couple encounters and they went like this....

    #1
    Cop} Did you know the hammer on your pistol was cocked back?
    Me} Yea, it's basically a single action 1911 45, it is designed to be carried cocked and locked, it is really the safest way to carry it
    Cop} We carry double action autos so we don't have to worry about keeping it cocked and safeties
    Me} I know, your department issues HK USP 9mms.
    Cop} Well, OK, I just wanted to make sure you knew about it.

    #2 I'm walking downtown, patrol car stops and turns on the overheads, gets out and walks to me
    Cop} Excuse me, can I talk to you a minute?
    Me} Sure
    Cop} I was dispatched on a report of a man with a gun and I am assuming it was you
    Me} Probably, damned hoplophobiacs
    Cop} (Puzzled look on his face)
    Me} People with an irrational fear of guns
    Cop} (laughs) I'll have to remember that word. Anyway I have to check it out, you haven't had any problems or anything have you?
    Me} Nope. Just walking down the street minding my own business
    Cop} OK I'll clear the call; by the way, what exactly is that you're carrying?
    We proceeded to talk guns for a minute or so, he gets back in his car and drives off.

    Now if either cop had started off with "Hey you! Show me some ID"! let's just say the encounter would have taken a decidedly different turn.

    How many people have reported encountering a cop in a store or something while OCing and the cop says "How's it goin'" or something similar? Congratulations, you've just been bumped! They didn't say anything to anyone else in the area just the guy carrying the gun, even if it was an honest greeting, any show of nervousness and the "cop-dar" would have come on full power.
    nedrgr21 likes this.


  2. #62
    VIP Member Array pittypat21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    Now if either cop had started off with "Hey you! Show me some ID"! let's just say the encounter would have taken a decidedly different turn.
    Unfortunately, an encounter doesn't have to start with that for a baiter to take it a decidedly different turn. I've seen it before...

    (Cop) "Hey, can I talk to you a minute?"
    (Baiter) "I'm not doing anything wrong officer, I have a legal right to be here and carry pursuant to my 2nd amendment rights. Am I being detained?"
    Bubbiesdad likes this.
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  3. #63
    Ex Member Array F350's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pittypat21 View Post
    Unfortunately, an encounter doesn't have to start with that for a baiter to take it a decidedly different turn. I've seen it before...

    (Cop) "Hey, can I talk to you a minute?"
    (Baiter) "I'm not doing anything wrong officer, I have a legal right to be here and carry pursuant to my 2nd amendment rights. Am I being detained?"
    Yea those guys are tools. At the "Can I talk to you a minute" it could be anything, "We have a kid separated from his mom, have you seen a small kid around?: A woman thinks she left her purse an a bench around here, have you seen anything?" I rode on patrol with a sheriff's deputy buddy for almost 10 years and we stopped and asked people for info multiple times, looking for a hit and run driver, trying to find a DUI suspect..... OC was almost unheard of in Indiana in the 80s but I would have been more inclined to ask an OCer for info figuring they were one of the good guys, criminals don't usually walk down a public street openly carrying a gun.
    pittypat21 and kb2wji like this.

  4. #64
    VIP Member Array SmokinFool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    Sure do, you think it would be OK for a cop to approach random individuals on the street, ask for ID and run wants & warrants to make sure the are legally allowed to be walking the streets and not wanted for anything right? Or stop random motorists to make sure they are legally allowed to drive, they aren't driving on a suspended license etc right? I mean the cop is just doing his job right?

    First off the officer does not have to be confrontational, any cop worth his salt can sum up a situation in an exchange of a half dozen sentences or so, I refer to this as a "bump" and have had a couple experiences while OCing. I use this term from shark behavior, a shark will often physically bump potential prey to judge it's reaction, is it an easy meal or likely to fight back? Victims of shark attacks often report feeling something bump them seconds before the bite; criminals do this with the "Got some spare change, got a cigarette, got a light" etc questions to gauge the person's reaction and decide weather to make their move or not, any show of weakness and they make their move, just like a shark.

    A cop can easily do the same thing, I call it a cop bump; a show of nervousness or evasiveness combined with training and experiences = RAS. I have had a couple encounters and they went like this....

    #1
    Cop} Did you know the hammer on your pistol was cocked back?
    Me} Yea, it's basically a single action 1911 45, it is designed to be carried cocked and locked, it is really the safest way to carry it
    Cop} We carry double action autos so we don't have to worry about keeping it cocked and safeties
    Me} I know, your department issues HK USP 9mms.
    Cop} Well, OK, I just wanted to make sure you knew about it.

    #2 I'm walking downtown, patrol car stops and turns on the overheads, gets out and walks to me
    Cop} Excuse me, can I talk to you a minute?
    Me} Sure
    Cop} I was dispatched on a report of a man with a gun and I am assuming it was you
    Me} Probably, damned hoplophobiacs
    Cop} (Puzzled look on his face)
    Me} People with an irrational fear of guns
    Cop} (laughs) I'll have to remember that word. Anyway I have to check it out, you haven't had any problems or anything have you?
    Me} Nope. Just walking down the street minding my own business
    Cop} OK I'll clear the call; by the way, what exactly is that you're carrying?
    We proceeded to talk guns for a minute or so, he gets back in his car and drives off.

    Now if either cop had started off with "Hey you! Show me some ID"! let's just say the encounter would have taken a decidedly different turn.

    How many people have reported encountering a cop in a store or something while OCing and the cop says "How's it goin'" or something similar? Congratulations, you've just been bumped! They didn't say anything to anyone else in the area just the guy carrying the gun, even if it was an honest greeting, any show of nervousness and the "cop-dar" would have come on full power.
    A bump. I like that. Cool, then I guess I was "cop bumped" yesterday when I was buying my seed. It makes sense. We talk all the time here about situational awareness. Seems to me that LEOs have a much hightened SA, or at least they should.
    ericb327 likes this.

  5. #65
    Distinguished Member Array ericb327's Avatar
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    I OCd in front of a Bellevue cop during a fender bender investigation. Handed him my permit, DL and insurance. The officer and the other driver could care less. Probably because I wasn't acting like a tool!
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  6. #66
    Member Array _Hawkeye_'s Avatar
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    If exercising a right is cause to be searched, then walking down the street as an arab-looking american, am I caused to be searched? Does not an officer have to see if I am here legally?

    Note, major langauge barrier can not figure out how to say what I want, try to figure out it
    English is my second language, I have been told my use of it is harsh, apologies if this is the matter.

    You know what stops a bad guy with a gun? A good guy with a gun

  7. #67
    Ex Member Array F350's Avatar
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    Just got back from dropping the wife's car at the shop (OCing as usual right side), as I went in the front door (it opened outward from right to left so I entered slightly facing left) I scanned from left front corner to the right front corner. There in the right front corner was a Colorado state cop, our eyes met and he just smiled a little knowing full well I scanned the room before entering, as I left he said "Have a good day" I said "Well, when they call with the estimate I'll know what kind of day it'll be" he just chuckled.

  8. #68
    Ex Member Array F350's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Hawkeye_ View Post
    If exercising a right is cause to be searched, then walking down the street as an arab-looking american, am I caused to be searched? Does not an officer have to see if I am here legally?

    Note, major langauge barrier can not figure out how to say what I want, try to figure out it
    You said it beautifully.

  9. #69
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    So, I live in an OC legal state with state preemption. Yet, in my little township, our police chief has stated he does not care what OH law says, if you OC, you will be detained until they decide if you are a threat to society. If I exercise my legal right to OC and carry a recorder in the on position, and I act politely, but within my rights when confronted, am I a baiter?
    It's the Land of Opportunity, not the Land of Entitlements - Vote America!!!

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  10. #70
    Senior Member Array Happypuppy's Avatar
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    What is the point? Is the goal to cause fear in uneducated citizens? That is what its doing. In CA now long Guns can no longer be carried due to Baiters.

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  11. #71
    Senior Member Array Phillep Harding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ksholder View Post
    So, I live in an OC legal state with state preemption. Yet, in my little township, our police chief has stated he does not care what OH law says, if you OC, you will be detained until they decide if you are a threat to society. If I exercise my legal right to OC and carry a recorder in the on position, and I act politely, but within my rights when confronted, am I a baiter?
    So long as you let the police guide the converstation. The idiot described in the original post guided the exchange into trouble by becoming confrontational early on. He did not let the cop bring up the firearm. Bad strategy.
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  12. #72
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    So the police guide the conversation and it starts with "may I see your concealed carry permit" which is not required to OC in OH, but this is frequently how it starts. If you don't have a CCW, they then ask for your DL, which you are not required to produce in OH unless you are suspected of a crime or witnessing a crime.

    Personally, I would show them either, but the request is not legally binding and can be refused. However, if you refuse, they will likely cuff and stuff you for something anyway. It has gotten to be way too much of an adversarial relationship between the cops and the general public.
    It's the Land of Opportunity, not the Land of Entitlements - Vote America!!!

    "When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny." Thomas Jefferson

    You are only paranoid until you are right - then you are a visionary.

  13. #73
    Member Array LkWd_Don's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ksholder View Post
    So the police guide the conversation and it starts with "may I see your concealed carry permit" which is not required to OC in OH, but this is frequently how it starts. If you don't have a CCW, they then ask for your DL, which you are not required to produce in OH unless you are suspected of a crime or witnessing a crime.

    Personally, I would show them either, but the request is not legally binding and can be refused. However, if you refuse, they will likely cuff and stuff you for something anyway. It has gotten to be way too much of an adversarial relationship between the cops and the general public.
    You won't get an argument from me on that point. The Police tend to forget that We are who They are supposed to SERVE and not ACCOST.
    Lets Unite and REMIND our Government that WE are the source of their authority and that WE demand our Rights be returned, Unabridged, Non-infringed, without denial or disparagement.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by pittypat21 View Post
    Unfortunately, an encounter doesn't have to start with that for a baiter to take it a decidedly different turn. I've seen it before...

    (Cop) "Hey, can I talk to you a minute?"
    (Baiter) "I'm not doing anything wrong officer, I have a legal right to be here and carry pursuant to my 2nd amendment rights. Am I being detained?"
    What if the person simply replied that he was sorry but was busy and did not have time to talk to the officer? If he had simply said that he did not have time right now. Or, if he was more blunt and just told the officer that he's rather not talk to him at the moment. Still a baiter?

    Michael

  15. #75
    Senior Member Array d2jlking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Hawkeye_ View Post
    Watched the video. The guy is a baiter no doubt. But it appears at least at the beginning the cop is wrong. You don't have to just give your id to a cop for no reason in this state. The proper course of action would be for the cops to drive by, observe and see if he appears to be breaking any laws.

    As far as his swapping back and forth between holsters it is not on video. So I have no opinion. But being handcuffed and searched to simply see if he is a felon is not ok.
    I'm NOT for going out intentionally trying to see if I can get a cop to stop me. It seems like this particular guy broke the law by not producing a permit when he was concealed carrying? Fair enough. Check him out. I also agree that the whole put my video on YouTube thing is a waste of time. However, I do believe that we lose our freedoms incrementally, not in one fell swoop. So many people seem to think "just cooperate with the LEO, if he asks for id, or wants to determine your status as a felon or non-felon". I disagree. I ALWAYS cooperate when interacting with LEOs. But there is a fine line between cooperation and giving up your rights. If you are breaking the law, or acting suspicious (carrying a gun in a legal OC state should NOT be deemed suspicious), then the LEO should investigate. Otherwise, back off. It's America.

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