This would have been a good for a new thread of its own in my opinion.
^ When it comes to public safety, YES, he has a responsibility to ensure that a weapon in clear view of the public is in fact legally possessed when there is concern as to the intentions of the possessor.
Especially when there is suspicious behavior.. and carrying two holsters with one empty.. thats odd.. cops carry guns every day, they know that is odd.. its suspicious.. and under the law as i understand it, reason to at least ask the guy to produce a CCW permit.
In fact, the very behavior of baiters is reason to detain them. They go out with guns and cameras, intending to get cops to notice them and start some crap.. or for people to get uneasy or concerned and call in a MWAG report..
Intending to cause public unrest or disruption is NOT LEGAL just about everywhere. That to me is a nefarious deed.. you are inciting fear and unrest ON PURPOSE. If you were just cruising through walmart or the park minding your own business and people got uneasy or scared.. well thats their problem.. you didnt go out looking to cause that.
But if you do... thats reason to stop your stupid butt and ask you a few questions. You decide to get an attitude about it, then yeah, they are going to detain or apprehend you until they can be sure that you are not a threat to society.
As to the walking down the street looking Arab-American type comments.. the analogy is not valid or comparable.. you didnt go outside and decide to go for a walk in an area to purposely get people upset or scared or freaked out about the strange person not-from-our-neighborhood.. you were minding your own business.. not intentionally inciting panic. Walk down the same street with an RPG or a knife or a burning cross/flag/banner... and you created a problem for yourself.. even if you think its free speach, etc.
The trouble comes when the Government claims that the mere act of doing something legal is reasonable suspicion that a crime has been or is about to be committed.
Now stop and think about that comment. For them to stop and require you to Id yourself, is against the constitution so that its self is a crime, maybe thats the crime they are refering to............ Go figure
There is no law that says I can't walk down the street with a claw hammer hanging from my toolbelt. The mere possession of a claw hammer does not justify the police detaining and questioning me--it is an entirely legal activity. If they see me running down the sidewalk chasing somebody with the hammer in my hand, OK, now they have a "reasonably articulable suspicion" (RAS) that something bad is happening or about to happen.
Now just change "claw hammer" to "pistol." Legally, everything remains the same. Without a RAS that I have committed, am committing, or am about to commit a crime, they have no right to detain or question me (Terry v. Ohio). They can observe me all they want. They can attempt to engage me in "casual" conversation, and try to get a feel for me and my intentions. I will be polite--they may be genuinely concerned--but not helpful; they may be just "fishing" to find something to charge me with.
I watched a bunch of OC baiters with their cameras on Youtube, They seem to all have the same agenda and seem to be well versed in what they are doing. I think this baiting is the worst thing for every firearms owner, They stress out the police and in the end it brings too much attention and the politicians will find a way to ban OC all together. Im all for our right bear arms, but these days with all the horror stories on the news there are so many scared public who never get to talk to responsible firearms owners and get to see the other side than what the media reports. If I ever open carried I would just show my ID and Id probably be on my way, however I'd much rather conceal carry. Just my Opinion
Well I saw my first baiter today. Watched a friend of mine, he's in law enforcement, set up a mechanical deer near a popular poaching area to catch road hunters. Now while I know that most people hate baiters its not like someone is forcing people to take the bait. If you follow the law and refuse to take the bait you will not have any problems. I was watching another case of baiting on the new were a large city was using fake prostitutes to bait men into breaking the law. There is even a show on TV called bait car where people are caught stealing the bait and prosecuted for doing so.
Why is it that when the Government does the baiting it is fine. They tell us that it is up to us to know the law and not take the bait. That ignorance of the law is no excuse. Yet when they are baited they scream bloody murder. They claim that they cannot be expected to know all the laws.
My friend an I had a fun discussion about this after setting the bait deer up. If a LEO shot the fake deer would those against cop baiting come to his defense? Or should Government employees be expected to know the laws and implications of taking the bait the same as everyone else? Just as I will be expected to know the law and not shoot the deer. Shouldn't the police be expected to know the law and not take the bait set out by the OC baiter?
Indiana issues a LTCH, with which one can carry either concealed or open. Since I choose to carry concealed, I don't expect to be approached by LE for the express purpose of checking my photo ID, and LTCH. If a handgun is not being carried in plain view, it simply doesn't attract attention. If some hysterical hoplophobe reported that he 'thought' I was armed with a handgun, I would most certainly expect responding LEOs to simply advise the dingbat to get a grip, since no handgun could clearly be seen.
If one chooses to open carry, one can expect to be politely asked by observant LEOs to present them with a photo ID and a LTCH. If I decided to OC, I would have no problem complying with this, as long as the LEO maintained a professional attitude. It's the bad apples I'd be concerned about. Being verbally abused, or physically manhandled in the process just isn't my cup of tea.
In a State that requires a permit to carry, how is a LEO to know if someone carrying a handgun in plain sight possesses a valid permit to do so if they don't politely ask to see it?
I've seen prostitutes before, don't know if they were cops or not as I didn't ask for services. I don't see this as baiting. The same with bait cars and poaching. Honest people are not going to break the law just because the opportunity is presented. A person's character is determined by their actions when they think no one is watching.