OC Baiter hit my town!

This is a discussion on OC Baiter hit my town! within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Bubbiesdad A good clue is the is the content of the video. Officer: "Sir, may I talk to you"? Baiter: "Am I ...

Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst ... 234567 LastLast
Results 76 to 90 of 101
Like Tree86Likes

Thread: OC Baiter hit my town!

  1. #76
    Member Array d2jlking's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    419
    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbiesdad View Post
    A good clue is the is the content of the video.

    Officer: "Sir, may I talk to you"?
    Baiter: "Am I being detained"?
    Officer:"I just need some information".
    Baiter:"I have my rights, under the 2nd, 4th and 5th Amendments".
    Officer:" I understand, but I have to find out if you are legally permitted to own that firearm".Baiter: "I don't consent"..........

    You get the idea.
    Note the bold text! Is it legal for the officer to do that? to stop you? to i.d. you? to determine if you are legally permitted to own that firearm.? The BAITERS do seem to be annoying attention seekers. But WHAT IS THE LAW?!?!?!?! Yes the baiter is wasting the LEOs time. But putting aside the particular circumstances of this case.......if you're doing nothing wrong, does the LEO have the right to detain and question you?

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #77
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    okla
    Posts
    4,298
    Quote Originally Posted by d2jlking View Post
    Note the bold text! Is it legal for the officer to do that? to stop you? to i.d. you? to determine if you are legally permitted to own that firearm.? The BAITERS do seem to be annoying attention seekers. But WHAT IS THE LAW?!?!?!?! Yes the baiter is wasting the LEOs time. But putting aside the particular circumstances of this case.......if you're doing nothing wrong, does the LEO have the right to detain and question you?
    I believe there are certain times when they are allowed to detain and question a person if the officer has a reasonable suspicion that a crime has been committed or is about to be committed. The trouble is that the Government likes to claim that any person who has a weapon on them is either guilty of a crime or is about to commit one. Making the detainment legal in their eyes.

    This would have been a good for a new thread of its own in my opinion.

    Michael

  4. #78
    Member Array JasonJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    259
    ^ When it comes to public safety, YES, he has a responsibility to ensure that a weapon in clear view of the public is in fact legally possessed when there is concern as to the intentions of the possessor.

    Especially when there is suspicious behavior.. and carrying two holsters with one empty.. thats odd.. cops carry guns every day, they know that is odd.. its suspicious.. and under the law as i understand it, reason to at least ask the guy to produce a CCW permit.

    In fact, the very behavior of baiters is reason to detain them. They go out with guns and cameras, intending to get cops to notice them and start some crap.. or for people to get uneasy or concerned and call in a MWAG report..

    Intending to cause public unrest or disruption is NOT LEGAL just about everywhere. That to me is a nefarious deed.. you are inciting fear and unrest ON PURPOSE. If you were just cruising through walmart or the park minding your own business and people got uneasy or scared.. well thats their problem.. you didnt go out looking to cause that.

    But if you do... thats reason to stop your stupid butt and ask you a few questions. You decide to get an attitude about it, then yeah, they are going to detain or apprehend you until they can be sure that you are not a threat to society.

    As to the walking down the street looking Arab-American type comments.. the analogy is not valid or comparable.. you didnt go outside and decide to go for a walk in an area to purposely get people upset or scared or freaked out about the strange person not-from-our-neighborhood.. you were minding your own business.. not intentionally inciting panic. Walk down the same street with an RPG or a knife or a burning cross/flag/banner... and you created a problem for yourself.. even if you think its free speach, etc.

  5. #79
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    okla
    Posts
    4,298
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonJ View Post
    ^ When it comes to public safety, YES, he has a responsibility to ensure that a weapon in clear view of the public is in fact legally possessed when there is concern as to the intentions of the possessor. :SNIP:
    The trouble comes when the Government claims that the mere act of doing something legal is reasonable suspicion that a crime has been or is about to be committed.

    Michael

  6. #80
    Senior Member Array Bubbiesdad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    East TN
    Posts
    1,048
    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    The trouble comes when the Government claims that the mere act of doing something legal is reasonable suspicion that a crime has been or is about to be committed.

    Michael
    Switching from CC to OC, where this occurred, is only "legal" if you have the permit for CC.
    Always remember that others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them. And then you destroy yourself.
    Richard M Nixon
    Owning a handgun doesn't make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.
    Jeff Cooper

  7. #81
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    okla
    Posts
    4,298
    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbiesdad View Post
    Switching from CC to OC, where this occurred, is only "legal" if you have the permit for CC.
    And a person driving a vehicle on public where that occurred is only legal if you have a permit to drive. Can the police randomly pull over anyone they desire and demand that they prove they are legally driving without first having a reason to believe that they are committing a crime? Do we want that?


    Michael

  8. #82
    Member Array Bill340's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Lakeland florida
    Posts
    163
    The trouble comes when the Government claims that the mere act of doing something legal is reasonable suspicion that a crime has been or is about to be committed.

    Now stop and think about that comment. For them to stop and require you to Id yourself, is against the constitution so that its self is a crime, maybe thats the crime they are refering to............ Go figure
    Phillep Harding likes this.

  9. #83
    Member Array EeyoreCC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Mississippi & Afghanistan
    Posts
    82
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonJ View Post
    ^ When it comes to public safety, YES, he has a responsibility to ensure that a weapon in clear view of the public is in fact legally possessed when there is concern as to the intentions of the possessor.
    The bolded portion is an important disclaimer. Some state laws do require a permit to carry in any manner. In that case, depending on how the law is written, police may be allowed to demand ID/permit just because you're carrying. Where no permit is required, intent is the key. Otherwise, he has no grounds to detain, search, demand ID, etc.

    There is no law that says I can't walk down the street with a claw hammer hanging from my toolbelt. The mere possession of a claw hammer does not justify the police detaining and questioning me--it is an entirely legal activity. If they see me running down the sidewalk chasing somebody with the hammer in my hand, OK, now they have a "reasonably articulable suspicion" (RAS) that something bad is happening or about to happen.

    Now just change "claw hammer" to "pistol." Legally, everything remains the same. Without a RAS that I have committed, am committing, or am about to commit a crime, they have no right to detain or question me (Terry v. Ohio). They can observe me all they want. They can attempt to engage me in "casual" conversation, and try to get a feel for me and my intentions. I will be polite--they may be genuinely concerned--but not helpful; they may be just "fishing" to find something to charge me with.
    Guns don't kill people. Drivers on cell phones do.

  10. #84
    Member Array mg27's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    457
    I watched a bunch of OC baiters with their cameras on Youtube, They seem to all have the same agenda and seem to be well versed in what they are doing. I think this baiting is the worst thing for every firearms owner, They stress out the police and in the end it brings too much attention and the politicians will find a way to ban OC all together. Im all for our right bear arms, but these days with all the horror stories on the news there are so many scared public who never get to talk to responsible firearms owners and get to see the other side than what the media reports. If I ever open carried I would just show my ID and Id probably be on my way, however I'd much rather conceal carry. Just my Opinion

  11. #85
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    okla
    Posts
    4,298
    Well I saw my first baiter today. Watched a friend of mine, he's in law enforcement, set up a mechanical deer near a popular poaching area to catch road hunters. Now while I know that most people hate baiters its not like someone is forcing people to take the bait. If you follow the law and refuse to take the bait you will not have any problems. I was watching another case of baiting on the new were a large city was using fake prostitutes to bait men into breaking the law. There is even a show on TV called bait car where people are caught stealing the bait and prosecuted for doing so.

    Why is it that when the Government does the baiting it is fine. They tell us that it is up to us to know the law and not take the bait. That ignorance of the law is no excuse. Yet when they are baited they scream bloody murder. They claim that they cannot be expected to know all the laws.

    My friend an I had a fun discussion about this after setting the bait deer up. If a LEO shot the fake deer would those against cop baiting come to his defense? Or should Government employees be expected to know the laws and implications of taking the bait the same as everyone else? Just as I will be expected to know the law and not shoot the deer. Shouldn't the police be expected to know the law and not take the bait set out by the OC baiter?

    Michael

  12. #86
    Ex Member Array F350's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Rocky Mountain High in Colorado
    Posts
    1,706
    Quote Originally Posted by EeyoreCC View Post
    The bolded portion is an important disclaimer. Some state laws do require a permit to carry in any manner. In that case, depending on how the law is written, police may be allowed to demand ID/permit just because you're carrying. Where no permit is required, intent is the key. Otherwise, he has no grounds to detain, search, demand ID, etc.
    All states require a license to drive a car; does that give LEO reason to pull people over and demand drivers licenses?? SCOTUS as already ruled NO on that one; car, handgun both require a license, what's the difference????????????????????

  13. #87
    Member Array Wolf357's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    309
    Indiana issues a LTCH, with which one can carry either concealed or open. Since I choose to carry concealed, I don't expect to be approached by LE for the express purpose of checking my photo ID, and LTCH. If a handgun is not being carried in plain view, it simply doesn't attract attention. If some hysterical hoplophobe reported that he 'thought' I was armed with a handgun, I would most certainly expect responding LEOs to simply advise the dingbat to get a grip, since no handgun could clearly be seen.

    If one chooses to open carry, one can expect to be politely asked by observant LEOs to present them with a photo ID and a LTCH. If I decided to OC, I would have no problem complying with this, as long as the LEO maintained a professional attitude. It's the bad apples I'd be concerned about. Being verbally abused, or physically manhandled in the process just isn't my cup of tea.

    In a State that requires a permit to carry, how is a LEO to know if someone carrying a handgun in plain sight possesses a valid permit to do so if they don't politely ask to see it?



    And Jesus said, "If you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." (Luke 22:36)

    I am a peaceful man. But I am not a pacifist.

  14. #88
    Senior Member Array Bubbiesdad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    East TN
    Posts
    1,048
    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    Well I saw my first baiter today. Watched a friend of mine, he's in law enforcement, set up a mechanical deer near a popular poaching area to catch road hunters. Now while I know that most people hate baiters its not like someone is forcing people to take the bait. If you follow the law and refuse to take the bait you will not have any problems. I was watching another case of baiting on the new were a large city was using fake prostitutes to bait men into breaking the law. There is even a show on TV called bait car where people are caught stealing the bait and prosecuted for doing so.

    Why is it that when the Government does the baiting it is fine. They tell us that it is up to us to know the law and not take the bait. That ignorance of the law is no excuse. Yet when they are baited they scream bloody murder. They claim that they cannot be expected to know all the laws.

    My friend an I had a fun discussion about this after setting the bait deer up. If a LEO shot the fake deer would those against cop baiting come to his defense? Or should Government employees be expected to know the laws and implications of taking the bait the same as everyone else? Just as I will be expected to know the law and not shoot the deer. Shouldn't the police be expected to know the law and not take the bait set out by the OC baiter?

    Michael

    I've seen prostitutes before, don't know if they were cops or not as I didn't ask for services. I don't see this as baiting. The same with bait cars and poaching. Honest people are not going to break the law just because the opportunity is presented. A person's character is determined by their actions when they think no one is watching.
    Poseidon and jem102 like this.
    Always remember that others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them. And then you destroy yourself.
    Richard M Nixon
    Owning a handgun doesn't make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.
    Jeff Cooper

  15. #89
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    okla
    Posts
    4,298
    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbiesdad View Post
    I've seen prostitutes before, don't know if they were cops or not as I didn't ask for services. I don't see this as baiting. The same with bait cars and poaching. Honest people are not going to break the law just because the opportunity is presented. A person's character is determined by their actions when they think no one is watching.
    Agree 100%. Just like the good citizens that refuse to take the bait I believe that the good police will also refuse. I do not believe that a good cop will abues his powers just because he has the opportunity. Its only the bad in both groups we need to worry about.

    Michael

    Michael

  16. #90
    Ex Member Array F350's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Rocky Mountain High in Colorado
    Posts
    1,706
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf357 View Post

    In a State that requires a permit to carry, how is a LEO to know if someone carrying a handgun in plain sight possesses a valid permit to do so if they don't politely ask to see it?

    When I lived in Indiana the state required a drivers license to drive a car, how do they know if a person openly driving has a license? Simple; they have to have at a minimum RAS to stop them and check.

Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst ... 234567 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

claw hammer handgun
,

how to spot a baiter

,
indiana open carry
,
indiana open carry forum
,
open carry
,
open carry and walking down the street.youtube
,
open carry baiters
,
police abuse of power in bellevue kentucky
,
right to carry guns-cop
,
riverfest bellevue, ky
,
verbal abuse baiter
Click on a term to search for related topics.