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got asked to conceal at my own home...

13K views 182 replies 66 participants last post by  JD 
#1 ·
Today my daughters head start teacher came for a home visit, and right before leaving, she asked me to cover up my handgun when the bus dropped off my kid. I hadn't even thought of it, I put on my clothes the same way each day. I'm conflicted as to what to do. On one hand, I'm in private property, on the other, they could refuse bus service which I need. What do you guys think?


I have my CCL, and on private property it isn't required to conceal. OC is constitutional here as well.
 
#45 ·
I agree that you need to choose your battles carefully. How important is Head Start and front door bus service to you and your family? If you would be willing to let your child sit out for the year or more that it could take to litigate this then stick to your open carry. However, they did not ask you to disarm, just cover. There is no guarantee that you would win a court case if it came to that.

Yes, you are on private property, but they can take away a time sensitive benefit to your family at least for a while. There is a better time and place to fight this battle.
 
#46 ·
... they can take away a time sensitive benefit to your family at least for a while. There is a better time and place to fight this battle.
what I'm saying is to get clarification about this. ask them directly, in writing, if this is the case. if they say they will in fact withhold transportation services based on the firearm, then decide if you want to pursue a potential violation of 45 CFR part 1310.10 or if you want to just cover it up. or both.
 
#47 ·
She asked, didn't demand? Sounds like she's not disapproving of your rights to protection, just hoping to avoid any potiential issues others may have with your displaying a firearm at a school bus stop.

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this one out. I'd do the simple thing that doesn't restrict your "rights" and cover up.
 
#53 ·
again, like others have stated, how the heck am i displaying it?? it is a properly holstered firearm in a retentive holster. i was neither holding it up or showing it off. to display would be the same as brandishing.
 
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#50 ·
It's a sad, sad day when a government official requests that you not exercise one of your protected constitutional individual rights. Would it be any different if they asked you not to wear that red shirt (you know, because red is the color of communists) or that cross on your belt buckle? Of course, they say It's not restricting your freedom of expression, because surely you can pick any other colors or symbols you like - just don't pick those that offend others.

It's even more sad when a good percentage of the advice on a forum like this is to just bend over and take it - that's a nice lesson for the kids. That is the lesson that unfortunately has been taught for the last several generations that has now eroded our rights so badly that the mere visibility of a gun around children sends our public servants into a wild frenzy.
 
#52 ·
Ah, well if it's a private school, ah, that changes everything. They can tell you to do whatever they want, and you can choose to ignore them or not. They may refuse service, and then you may choose to litigate that. Good luck.

Personally, if this a private operation, just go talk to the person and whoever runs the school and explain the situation and then try to come to a workable understanding with them about the issue.
 
#54 ·
We temper our exercise of our 1A rights, because we're sensible. We COULD walk into a mall and spew profanity and any number of horrible things, but we don't so as to be reasonable people who just want to get through the day smoothly. If you can explain to me how OCing in front of this bus will make your life easier, then do so. But you have only listed the bad things that might happen; temper yourself, be reasonable and for that 30 seconds, pull your shirt over it, and make the day smoother. Unless you're a crusader...My 2 cents.
 
#69 ·
In an ideal world, this would be a non issue. This is not an ideal world.
What is also clear from your follow up posts is that the part of this that is sticking in your craw is the "property rights" issue. Well, in actuality, I think it really amounts to a control or power issue for you and you perceive that your being threatened. Perhaps you are, e.g. with loss of bus service, or perhaps you are making this into something it is not.
The bottom line is that you have a choice. You can either recognize that the site of a gun makes some, if not many people nervous and understand that they will be prone to act irrationally where their children are concerned, or you can challenge it. To me it looks like this person acknowledged your right/privelge to carry, but is also pointing out that others (the majority) won't see it that way and is suggesting a way to avoid problems. Either way you get to accept the consequence, good or bad for your choice(s).
 
#70 ·
In an ideal world, this would be a non issue. This is not an ideal world.
What is also clear from your follow up posts is that the part of this that is sticking in your craw is the "property rights" issue. Well, in actuality, I think it really amounts to a control or power issue for you and you perceive that your being threatened. Perhaps you are, e.g. with loss of bus service, or perhaps you are making this into something it is not.
The bottom line is that you have a choice. You can either recognize that the site of a gun makes some, if not many people nervous and understand that they will be prone to act irrationally where their children are concerned, or you can challenge it. To me it looks like this person acknowledged your right/privelge to carry, but is also pointing out that others (the majority) won't see it that way and is suggesting a way to avoid problems. Either way you get to accept the consequence, good or bad for your choice(s).
One does have the right to be the "power" on his own property. I'd be ok with your assessment on that.
 
#72 ·
castle doctrine. a mans home is his castle, his last place of retreat. that would mean that this king should protect his children and not be subjected to the irrational requests of others. i dont go into their 'school' and question their ability to protect the children nor do i interfere in their 'safety' procedures or ignore the illegally undersized gunbuster signs which are faded and peeling off the windows.
 
#73 ·
How is your ability to protect your children or your right to protect the castle been infringed upon? "Irrational" is an entirely-subjective concept, and one I would be reluctant to play upon in this particular scenario.
 
#77 ·
Nobody has pointed out that the same people who are making this request that you deem unreasonable are the same people who you're trusting your child to with unrestricted access for multiple hours per day.
 
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#165 ·
Great Point!

My wife & I came to the end of our rope & this understanding during the 08 election when our kids came home wearing Obama buttons and saying they voted today.

That's when we decided "WE" had to truly put our children first! We weren't about to let them become mindless, indoctrinated, brainwashed SHEEP!

I was disabled & she was the breadwinner of the family. But, she didn't make enough to pay for "private" education. So, I became a "Homeschool" dad. Today my kids get a better education than at the PSS and they do not get indoctrinated.


If there is anyway possible for you to be a "Homeschool" dad TCD, I would encourage you to go the same route I did. I do struggle some. But, the sacrifice has been worth truly putting my children 1st when it comes to their education.

-
 
#83 ·
To the OP, it is your home do what you would like. However, using a little tack might be well advised. If you do choose not to cover it up, you will be labeled the gun nut, and I wouldnt doubt is some sort of notation goes into your kids file. This is the time to play it safe....
 
#110 ·
What is to say that that notation isn't already in the file?
 
#86 ·
I would request a meeting with the principal or whoever is in the food chain. Explain to him/her conversation and ask him directly what the exact problem is. Dancing around the issue is pointless. Base your decision on carrying after that.

If he says there will be no bus service if you OC then it is up to you to take the issue further. Personaly I would. This is another example of where someone wants to change your behaviour because of their own set of personal values.

I hate the slippery slop arguements but what if they asked someone to not be wearing a certain religous or politcal message on thier shirts or have signs up in the yard that some may deem offensive.

My 2 cents and if it was already mentioned disregard...I didn't have time to read all 6 pages.
 
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#88 · (Edited)
Sorry, but I cannot agree with those who suggest you do as the teacher says.
You are on your own property, DOING NOTHING ILLEGAL.
The teacher should mind her own business and stick to teaching. They are getting as bad as doctors nowadays, putting their noses where they DO NOT BELONG.

Just my $.02
 
#91 ·
Are there alternative programs you could enroll her in? I believe, very early in the thread that you've answered your own question. This is a program you NEED, presumably so you are free to work and provide for your family. Are you prepared for the repercussions if you decide to take this head on? If they pull the plug on her attendance? I understand standing up for your rights...but occasionally self preservation should play a part in your decision; especially if you are not the only one effected by the road you take. Only you can make the call here. Just my .02.
 
#93 · (Edited)
It really depends on how much you need the free ride to school if they are able to stop transportation. Is this free ride necessary or is it a convenience? Why was she on a home visit to begin with? I would give a lawyer a call. You can get a free consultation for just about anything. I am not even sure you can open carry at a buss stop. Giving up your legal right to be armed for a convenience is not real smart. People give up their rights everyday because " it is easier ". Pretty soon we won't have any rights at all.

In ohio we can Open Carry so you don't have to stay on your own property if you are in a state that has open carry. I see no reason why your child can't get off somewhere else and you can watch them walk to your drive. There is another solution. Don't put your child in head start. There is nothing taught in head start that a parent can't teach at home. As far as being around other children a nice sunday school at church lets children interact with each other and learn the skills they would learn in head start.
 
#95 ·
Wild crazy paranoid ideas and "the chances of that happening is (fill in the blank here) has ZERO relevance how someone wants to carry as long as it is legal and IMO they do it safely.

There was a multiple murder in a small NH town. There had not been a murder in the area for decades. What were the odds of that? Arguments like the chances of that happening are so remote are what the Brady Bunch uses when they tell folks they don't need to carry because of this or that stat.

It is no ones business to change ones lifestyle because of the personnel philosophy of another. This is happening on this mans PROPERTY. It is not like he is walking his girl a mile down the road antagonizing people.

Hardly anyone here even brought up the idea of talking directly to those involved to find out exactly what the management feels. No, the first knee jerk instinct was for everyon to tell the OP to cover up because some lady paid a visit to his house.

That is cowardly. Just be an adult and broach the subject. Or at lest try.

I can not fathom how people felt it was better to cover up instead of talking first.
 
#101 ·
tricolordad:

No one so far that I can tell is telling you not to exercise your 2A RKBA. Most however are suggesting that you avoid confrontation when one is not really necessary. Either your children's welfare (being able to take the bus to the headstart school) is most important or your being offended at the thought of having to cover up a firearm on your own property is most important. This is not about the government infringing on your rights as much as it is about a business providing a service to you that happens to require pick up on your property. They would be completely within their rights to deny you the bus pickup if you were to insist on openly carrying when quietly covering it up would allow you to feel safe while allowing the business to feel safe as well (I'm not judging how safe you or they really would be in this situation).

My children's welfare and education is more important to me so in this situation I would swallow my pride and cover up the weapon.
 
#103 ·
it is not displayed, nor is it used to shock people. i am comfortable in a certain style and fit of clothing and see no reason to spennd hundreds on new clothes for a feel-good solution that will no longer be good enough for those who object to OC once it is eliminated. give an inch, they take a mile. i thought we learned that in 1934.
 
#105 ·
Come on, this is a private entity providing you a service. If you don't want the service by all means stand your ground but I would suggest you do not come here crying woe is me. I don't believe you will find too many sympathetic ears.

Don't give an inch, drive your kid miles.
 
#121 ·
Today my daughters head start teacher came for a home visit, and right before leaving, she asked me to cover up my handgun...
.
I think the key word is "asked"... just a little courtesy... seems that she didn't threaten you with discontinued bus service or any legal action, it was simply a request. Working with kids on a schoolbus is not easy; and bottom line, you entrust her on a daily basis with your kids. Maybe it would help her carry out that responsibility if your gun were concealed; maybe it just makes her feel uneasy. Either way, since it was simply a request, you have the right to say no. And no problem at all if you exercise that right.

But would it be any skin off your back if you honored her request? Help her take care of your kids, and when it gets to the point that you don't want her anti-gun bias influencing your kids, then simply resort to home -school....
 
#128 ·
I assume you mean these bradys ...:hand5:

 
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