I Wonder if OC'ing a Sawed Off Shotgun Will Get Me Arrested? DOH! - Page 2

I Wonder if OC'ing a Sawed Off Shotgun Will Get Me Arrested? DOH!

This is a discussion on I Wonder if OC'ing a Sawed Off Shotgun Will Get Me Arrested? DOH! within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by tacman605 As far as him leaving then being stopped. Just because LE is called and they do not get there in time ...

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Thread: I Wonder if OC'ing a Sawed Off Shotgun Will Get Me Arrested? DOH!

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array chiefjason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    As far as him leaving then being stopped. Just because LE is called and they do not get there in time to find the suspect still on the scene it does not mean they stop looking. If the call came in and the officers did not arrive in time I can bet, just guessing here, that more than one person noticed him and got a description that they gave to the responding officers. At that point they were completely within there authority to locate him and question him about the matter.
    Maybe, maybe not. It would mainly depend on whether he did anything illegal. If what he did was legal, and they stopped him anyway and found out the shotgun was illegal through the stop it might end up getting tossed. Walking up to someone OC'ing in public and having a consensual conversation is one thing. LE can ask you anything they want. Detaining you to ask those questions ups the ante and requires more reason to do so. Stopping someone that has left requires even more reason, particularly if the activity they were engaged in was legal. I can't find it right now, but there was a legal opinion on this distributed to NC LE through an attorney that works with them. It basically laid out the case that stopping them after they drove off was not legal to do. If I can track it down I'll link it here. And this may differ from state to state as well.
    I prefer to live dangerously free than safely caged!

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  2. #17
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    A lot of this would depend on local/state laws and how the call was called in.

    If this was called in as or put out as a MWAG call they would have at a minimum reasonable suspicion to go further. If the incident was called in and put out as a man with a sawed off shotgun in the store there would be more than enough to follow up. The article was a little vague so there is really no telling.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  3. #18
    Senior Member Array ZX9RCAM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    Depends .... seems a lot of "jumping to conclusions" .... there are places here, where that would be legal..... as there is no laws in some areas against openly carrying a long gun or shot gun anywhere.
    Unless you missed the part about it being "sawed off" below legal length, I am not sure there is anyplace (in public) it would be legal without a stamp.
    CLASS3NH likes this.
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  4. #19
    Member Array mnmbrewing's Avatar
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    Michigan is an open carry state. However any loaded weapon in your vehicle is considered concealed and you need a CPL. Don't remember where I saw the article but there was a news story some time ago about a guy OC'd to a town meeting. Police couldn't do anything in the meeting. However as soon as he sat down in his car and closed the door the weapon was considered concealed and they arrested him since he didn't have his license.

  5. #20
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    ^^^^^^^^^^^

    That's one of those laws that fall into the chicken crap catagory.
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  6. #21
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    FWIW, I'm not trusting a journalist to get "sawed off" correct when they can't get Assault rifle, full auto, semi automatic, clip, magazine, AK 47, or AR 15 correct most of the time.

    And yeah, it's hard telling. But would be interesting to see how leaving the scene and stopped later plays out. Also interesting will be if the stop is found illegal; what will they do with the sawed off charge if it's accurate? If the knowledge was gained via an illegal stop will that get tossed too?

    Alas, we'll move on and never know. lol
    Eagleks likes this.
    I prefer to live dangerously free than safely caged!

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  7. #22
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    Even if an Indiana resident is able to obtain a BATF "stamp", Indiana law prohibits private citizens from possessing "sawed-off" shotguns. It is a Class D felony: (IC 35-47-5-4.1)

    A local resident once showed me his sawed-off shotgun, which he claimed he kept for home defense. If he uses this illegal firearm for any reason that gets the attention of LE, he's in big trouble.

    And Jesus said, "If you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." (Luke 22:36)

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  8. #23
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    The charge for carrying concealed probably was due to the fact that the removed portion of the barrel was still in his pocket...
    "Historical examination of the right to bear arms, from English antecedents to the drafting of the Second Amendment, bears proof that the right to bear arms has consistently been, and should still be, construed as an individual right." -- U.S. District Judge Sam Cummings, Re: U.S. vs Emerson (1999)

  9. #24
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    Shot gun has to be 18" and 26 over all or have proper paper work . I think he was packing a concealed pistol as well and likely no CCW Befor we had the permits it was like 50 bucks and loss of pistol in Lexington . 1st time If was a hi dollar pistol you could as court for return . Might get it back might not . I carried a rossi 38 snub back then or a Beretta 950BS.
    I don't understand the walk around I think he was trying to get arrested . Ky a open carry state but you will get likely get questioned in Lexington Louisville and up around Cinci . I was walking on my street(lexington) was about 100 yds from house and I got 3 cars converging on me. I had on my hip in plain sight . A Cold Steel Model 1 knife . Thats a 7in blade hunting knife. Cop thought I shouldn't be walking around with a knife like that . They let me go after running checks and wasting my time . So you might see what a open carry pistol will do in those cities. Now I live in country can carry what I want how I want no one says nothing Go to wally world open carry fine with them .
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  10. #25
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    [QUOTE=michael t;2434413]Shot gun has to be 18" and 26 over all or have proper paper work . I think he was packing a concealed pistol as well and likely no CCW Befor we had the permits it was like 50 bucks and loss of pistol in Lexington . 1st time If was a hi dollar pistol you could as court for return . Might get it back might not . I carried a rossi 38 snub back then or a Beretta 950BS.
    I don't understand the walk around I think he was trying to get arrested . Ky a open carry state but you will get likely get questioned in Lexington Louisville and up around Cinci . I was walking on my street(lexington) was about 100 yds from house and I got 3 cars converging on me. I had on my hip in plain sight . A Cold Steel Model 1 knife . Thats a 7in blade hunting knife. Cop thought I shouldn't be walking around with a knife like that . They let me go after running checks and wasting my time . So you might see what a open carry pistol will do in those cities. Now I live in country can carry what I want how I want no one says nothing Go to wally world open carry fine with them .[/QUOTE]

    This is what really irks me. The primary duty of LE is to enforce established laws. It is entirely unprofessional when individual LEOs inflict their personal opinions on private citizens.

    It is also infuriating when individual LEOs sympathize with the purely emotional 'feelings' of hysterical hoplophobes who call them regarding a MWG. It is not their duty to violate the perfectly legal right of a private citizen to carry a firearm or knife to placate the irrational feelings of touchy-feely twits who simply don't believe anyone but LEOs should be allowed to carry "those scary weapons". But, sadly, this unprofessional nonsense is even encouraged by some departments due to local politics.
    And Jesus said, "If you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." (Luke 22:36)

    I am a peaceful man. But I am not a pacifist.

  11. #26
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    Even if an Indiana resident is able to obtain a BATF "stamp", Indiana law prohibits private citizens from possessing "sawed-off" shotguns. It is a Class D felony: (IC 35-47-5-4.1)
    Not to start and argument but this did not sound right. I sent a message to a member who deals with Class 3 stuff and this is his reply.

    In response to your question is that you are correct. The NFA Tax/Transfer stamp trumps any State statute. If Indiana is a NFA approved State, then you're allowed to have it.
    I just checked Indiana and they have no restrictions. Go to
    WWW.MP5.Net to see all the states that allow NFA weapons


    The site has a state by state list and Indiana does allow SBS, Machine guns, suppressors and so on except they do not allow Explosive Destructive Devices.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  12. #27
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    The primary duty of LE is to enforce established laws.
    It is also one of the primary duties of LE to respond to calls for service. In the knife situation he did not say if someone called or they simply happened to drive by but they responded or saw it satisfied the criteria or their own curiosity and he went on his way.

    Personally I have never felt the need to carry a knife with a 7 inch blade but to each his own.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  13. #28
    Member Array Wolf357's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Not to start and argument but this did not sound right. I sent a message to a member who deals with Class 3 stuff and this is his reply.
    Besides the related IC, I was informed by a former director of the ISP Firearms Division that "sawed-off" shotguns are the one NFA item that can't be legally possessed in IN by private citizens.

    In response to your question is that you are correct. The NFA Tax/Transfer stamp trumps any State statute. If Indiana is a NFA approved State, then you're allowed to have it.
    I just checked Indiana and they have no restrictions. Go to
    WWW.MP5.Net to see all the states that allow NFA weapons


    The site has a state by state list and Indiana does allow SBS, Machine guns, suppressors and so on except they do not allow Explosive Destructive Devices.
    I wasn't able to access the site you provided.
    And Jesus said, "If you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." (Luke 22:36)

    I am a peaceful man. But I am not a pacifist.

  14. #29
    Member Array Wolf357's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    It is also one of the primary duties of LE to respond to calls for service. In the knife situation he did not say if someone called or they simply happened to drive by but they responded or saw it satisfied the criteria or their own curiosity and he went on his way.

    Personally I have never felt the need to carry a knife with a 7 inch blade but to each his own.
    I never stated it wasn't. I stated it isn't professional for responding LEOs to take advantage of their authority by inflicting their asinine personal opinions on private citizens who are not violating established laws. This kind of arrogant behavior needs to be curtailed.
    And Jesus said, "If you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." (Luke 22:36)

    I am a peaceful man. But I am not a pacifist.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by msgt/ret View Post
    I too do not see a reason for the concealed charged if it was on his shoulder. And the defacing charge isnít it a federal charge to cut down the barrel to less than 18 inches?
    According to local news, serial number missing reason for the defacing charge. Picture of it here:
    Laurel Co. Sheriff Department's Photos | Facebook

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