Indiana silent on open carry

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RightsEroding

:22a:

...and it is precisely this "this lack of understanding" that WILL often cause one to be detained/harassed.

This has little to do with who is in the right.

Some here apparently do not grasp this very real possibility. I am not arguing the legality of being detained/harassed. My point is Not drawing attention to one self. While oc is legal in many states,...so is burning a flag in public. Both will p*** off many including LE. After a period of this sort of bravado, the irritation is oft followed by liberal pot stirrers....before we know it, local gov is looking at the possibility of restricting OC.

I find most people who OC are just showing the unwashed masses how big their machine is.

Other than LE, I see no reason to stir up the hornets nest. Legal CC is and has been under attack for a while now. Why give them the fuel?

It does not take a advanced degree in social engineering to fully realize the anti gun community is looking for as many reasons as possible to take guns away. If anyone thinks this stance is extreme and just wants to bury there head in the sand, then I submit that thinking is dangerous. Have a look at the UN gun treaty as it gains more traction and evolves. Another subject altogether which I am happy to discuss in another topic.

---

I OC occassionally, and it has absolutely nothing to do with showing everyone how big my "machine" is. Nor do I choose to OC to make a political statement or to antagonize the anti-gun crowd. I OC purely for the sake of comfort. Since it is legal to OC here in Indiana, I don't feel the need to sacrifice comfort or buy my pants and other clothing in a larger size to dress around the gun. I let my clothing choice dictate how I carry, not the other way around. If it is jacket/hoodie weather, it gets covered up. If it is warmer outside, it doesn't. Regardless, my M&P is on my hip in an OWB holster because that is what is comfortable for me.

As far as OCing making others mad goes, does it really matter? Like I said before, I don't do it to antagonize anyone, but I don't really care if my choice upsets or offends anyone. If a member of the public wants to voice their opposition to me carrying a handgun, I totally respect their right to do so, but we have just as much of a right to OC as the naysayers have to complain about it. Anyway, since you seem to be stuck on the act of OCing angering others, maybe we should all refrain from voicing our opinions also, as our opinions might upset some people too. Heck, let's just go ahead and stop practicing all of our other constitutional rights while we're at it for the sake of keeping everyone else content, and see how far that gets us.

Now, on to your prior assertion that OCing a firearm WILL get you hassled, stopped, detained, etc. ... I have not been carrying for very long, but I have found, through my own experience and through reading the accounts of others, that most people are either so wrapped up in their daily lives that they don't even notice or they just don't care. The latter applies to most LEOs as well. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there are some uneducated police officers out there that hassle people for OCing out of ignorance of the law, but it doesn't happen all of the time. In short, OCing CAN get you hassled but it doesn't mean that it WILL. Since you seem to be a huge proponent of CC and against OC, I hope you are very meticulous regarding the concealment of your firearm. If you "print" while CCing and someone notices, that COULD get you hassled.

*Steps off soapbox*

The floor is yours.

The floor is unnecessary.
This is simply a case where some of us will agree to disagree.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dbglock

...I don't know why anybody would OC under these conditions unless it just makes them think they're badasses or something.

---

[gasp!] ...people DO that?!?!

Actually, the open carry folks that I've seen here in Virginia have been a remarkably sober lot: they've been going about their business and nary a swagger has been seen in the lot. May that type increase! But I agree that when the legal/social cards are stacked towards painting one as an idiot and getting one into hot water with the cops, it seems a better strategy to keep a lower profile.

[I realize that some push the envelope in order to de-criminalize the near-edge behavior and to help us preserve our rights. To those guys, thanks! But I'm speaking more of Joe Average here, with an eye towards me-and-my-family defense and conduct rather than societal change.]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RightsEroding

The floor is unnecessary.
This is simply a case where some of us will agree to disagree.

---

I must ask then, what was your reasoning behind creating this thread? Your original post and subsequent replies to others make it seem as though your sole intention was to just come in here and spew forth your negative opinions regarding OC (and those that do OC) instead of trying to gain a little insight into why some choose to do so. What is there to be gained from that?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RT

I must ask then, what was your reasoning behind creating this thread? Your original post and subsequent replies to others make it seem as though your sole intention was to just come in here and spew forth your negative opinions regarding OC (and those that do OC) instead of trying to gain a little insight into why some choose to do so. What is there to be gained from that?

---

What is there to be "gained" from any thread or discussion?

Discussion is always a good thing as evidenced by the number of participants in this one. Some agreed that OC is counter productive..some do not agree.

I find it interesting your choice of words. (Spew, negative, opinion) The only one you got right was (opinion) Because I choose NOT to OC, that makes me a negative person?

Are the forums only for those who are 100% for this and 100% for that when it comes to gun issues?
W/O opposing viewpoints, even among us gun owners and carriers, it seems to me this creates a polarization that will blind us to what is beyond our rights (i,e) those who wish to harm our rights.

I've been accused that my user-name is bad. Really?
We have lost rights in this country. Do some take offense that I raise a flag and say "Hey, watch out...we have a constitutional threat over here or over there"

Summary: I choose NOT to OC. Some choose TO OC.

My (Intent) as you asked was to spur thinking or re-thinking to those who do OC.

My rethinking is.... more people open carrying is good for the country! Fewer people whining about it is good for the country. Troll hunting is fun! Have your tag yet?

You can also make yourself a target. Not all BGs are dumb. If you open carry you need to be extra alert to things happening on all sides of you at the same time, all the time.

On the brighter side, Arkansas, for the first time since Civil War Reconstruction, is Republican majority and maybe we will get some more favorable carry laws.

George

Seeing some guy minding his own business while OC'ing bothers me a lot less than a group of punks with their butts hanging out. A hand-tooled holster is a lot more attractive than the young punk's skid marks. (Oh, yeah. Seen that.) It's kind of funny what gets people worked up the most.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RightsEroding

What is there to be "gained" from any thread or discussion?

Discussion is always a good thing as evidenced by the number of participants in this one. Some agreed that OC is counter productive..some do not agree.

---

Discussion is a good thing, but nothing can be gained from discussion when one is (apparently) unwilling to open their mind to the other side's point of view. NOTE: I'm not saying you have to accept the other way of thinking to gain something.

Quote:

---

I find it interesting your choice of words. (Spew, negative, opinion) The only one you got right was (opinion) Because I choose NOT to OC, that makes me a negative person?

Are the forums only for those who are 100% for this and 100% for that when it comes to gun issues?
W/O opposing viewpoints, even among us gun owners and carriers, it seems to me this creates a polarization that will blind us to what is beyond our rights (i,e) those who wish to harm our rights.

---

Opposing viewpoints are fine, not to mention a vital part of a lively discussion or debate. My issue was your perceived negativity. First you started off with what seemed like some sort of trumped up scare tactic to try to dissuade people from OC with the, "One thing is for sure; if you open carry in Indiana, you WILL be stopped, you WILL be questioned and you WILL be on their (LE) radar" and the, "Who ever said cops require grounds to detain/arrest/harass citizens? Happens all the time. I don't need that sort of attention." Is that a possibility? Yes, but it is not a sure thing, nor is it really all that common. The majority of LEOs are good cops that are not going stop and harrass someone who is doing something totally legal. In the case of (the few) bad cops, being stopped and harrassed for OC, CC, or any other legal activity for that matter, is a possibility. I agree that OC could increase the chances of being hassled by a bad cop, but it doesn't happen all the time or all that often.

Second was your, "Let's see. Posted "No Weapons" and you carried it in anyway? Do I want more? Ummm..No thanks...You just spoke volumes about the type of individual you are", negative insinuation about the character of the one that LEGALLY carried into his polling place even though it was posted without doing a little fact checking first. I emphasized the legally because much like Indiana, Idaho law basically pre-empts any such signage posted by a locality in a public place. Knowing Indiana law, is it too much of a stretch to believe other states have roughly the same legislation or to at least check that other state's laws before taking a dig at someone?

Last was the comparison of OC to flag burning to demonstrate how much OC "will p*** of many". This is the thing that really set me off. Many in the gun community are very patriotic, so that comparison is incredibly inflammatory and paints those that OC in quite a negative light. Following that up with, "I find most people who OC are just showing the unwashed masses how big their machine is," you just pretty much classified the majority of those that OC as rebels who just want to cause a scene and show off. Sure, there are those out there that probably fit that description pretty dang well if not spot on, but in my experience, the vast majority of those that OC do so merely because that is what they are most comfortable with for one reason or another, be it a tactical reason or a reason purely rooted in physical comfort.

Quote:

---

I've been accused that my user-name is bad. Really?
We have lost rights in this country. Do some take offense that I raise a flag and say "Hey, watch out...we have a constitutional threat over here or over there"

---

Personally, I have no issue with your name. I agree with you. Whether is has been under the guise of providing safety or whatnot, I too feel some of our rights have slipped away.

Quote:

---

Summary: I choose NOT to OC. Some choose TO OC.

My (Intent) as you asked was to spur thinking or re-thinking to those who do OC.

---

I get the merits of CC as I choose to CC as well on occassion. Most of the time my reasoning is comfort and clothing choice (doubt it would be all that comfortable to hike my jacket or hoodie up over my gun just for the sake of OC), but I'll also suck it up and cover my pistol when I know I'm going to be around certain family members that aren't the most gun friendly people in the world. I deal with and see those family members on a regular basis, so I'd rather not open that can of worms knowing their stance and how unlikely it is to change. Also, I get some of the tactical merits of CC. It has its place, but I just don't see that much of a benefit to sacrifice comfort and do it exclusively. When it comes to the public and OC, I see an added bonus of potentially educating someone who is on the fence or ignorant of our laws even though I make the decision to OC on occassion purely for my comfort.

As to your intent, there are no hard feelings here, but it seemed as though you took on the role of lecturer through your tone rather than just being part of the discussion. It just seemed as though you were on a mission to prove that OC is somehow wrong and that your method of carry is better. They both have their merits, but what works for one may not work for another.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RightsEroding

What is there to be "gained" from any thread or discussion?

Discussion is always a good thing as evidenced by the number of participants in this one. Some agreed that OC is counter productive..some do not agree.

I find it interesting your choice of words. (Spew, negative, opinion) The only one you got right was (opinion) Because I choose NOT to OC, that makes me a negative person?

Are the forums only for those who are 100% for this and 100% for that when it comes to gun issues?
W/O opposing viewpoints, even among us gun owners and carriers, it seems to me this creates a polarization that will blind us to what is beyond our rights (i,e) those who wish to harm our rights.

I've been accused that my user-name is bad. Really?
We have lost rights in this country. Do some take offense that I raise a flag and say "Hey, watch out...we have a constitutional threat over here or over there"

Summary: I choose NOT to OC. Some choose TO OC.

My (Intent) as you asked was to spur thinking or re-thinking to those who do OC.

---

^^^^You would have been wise to^^^^^^^^

Search for past threads on this subject, as there have been many.
The idea behind the OC forum here @ DC is for forum members to discuss open carry, methods about OC and every now and then post positive or negative outcomes with the general public or LEO concerning OC.

Not to post negatively about, or put down (suggesting they are dumber than a box of rocks) individuals who choose to OC where legal and justifiable to do so.

City contends man with gun was asked to leave zoo because he was disorderly » Evansville Courier & Press

OC may be fine, but your reaction to being questioned about it, especially by the owner or manager of the place you're visiting can determine how far the DEFCON level is raised. And in the above case, if you're snotty about it, LEO can always detain you for being disorderly. And if a business owner knows you're armed and asks you to leave, and you refuse, you can be arrested for trespassing. He could also ask you to leave if you're pants are sagging halfway down your back end, but that's another forum.:rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AVGuy

City contends man with gun was asked to leave zoo because he was disorderly » Evansville Courier & Press

OC may be fine, but your reaction to being questioned about it, especially by the owner or manager of the place you're visiting can determine how far the DEFCON level is raised. And in the above case, if you're snotty about it, LEO can always detain you for being disorderly. And if a business owner knows you're armed and asks you to leave, and you refuse, you can be arrested for trespassing. He could also ask you to leave if you're pants are sagging halfway down your back end, but that's another forum.:rolleyes:

---

Yes, I think that has been discussed among us.