Is a request for your ID really an infringement of your rights? - Page 13

Is a request for your ID really an infringement of your rights?

This is a discussion on Is a request for your ID really an infringement of your rights? within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by SR9C33 No questions asked I will hand over my ID.. I have nothing to hide and they are just doing their job. ...

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Thread: Is a request for your ID really an infringement of your rights?

  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by SR9C33 View Post
    No questions asked I will hand over my ID.. I have nothing to hide and they are just doing their job. Scold me for this, but I would want an LEO to check any guy out walking around with an exposed gun.


    In a place where OC is legal? I wouldn't want them wasting my tax dollars on harrassing law-abiding citizens.

    On that same basis, you'd think it's okay for them to frisk everyone to see if they're carrying concealed?
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  2. #182
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    I will be OC and to say I'm against the second amendment is ignorant. I'm not saying frisk, ask for an ID, why give them a hard time? What do you have to hide, the more resistance you give them, the more likely your going to end up in handcuffs ( for one reason or another) i just don't see the point in being an ******* to them for no reason when you can take 15 seconds and show them an ID, I guess I just don't see the big deal? You have to exspect that when carrying a firearm, period.

  3. #183
    Distinguished Member Array Exacto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.C.BG.380 View Post
    That is an irrelevant point; this has to do with whether or not you should make a mountain outta a mole hill. I am simply saying that if asked for your ID they are just doing their jobs. For the most part LEO’s will not even approach you unless a MWAG call or a complaint has been made. At that point they are just doing their job.
    You put a lot of mole hills together and you have a mountain. Where does it stop.
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  4. #184
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    Sorry, unless there is probable cause (a reason to believe as crime has been committed.) There is no cause for an LEO to ask for identification. No matter how you slice it, MWAG in an "open carry" state is not probable cause. That is a violation of my constitutional right to keep and bear arms.

    Get over it!

    Scott

  5. #185
    Senior Member Array USM1976's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunfan View Post
    Sorry, unless there is probable cause (a reason to believe as crime has been committed.) There is no cause for an LEO to ask for identification. No matter how you slice it, MWAG in an "open carry" state is not probable cause. That is a violation of my constitutional right to keep and bear arms.

    Get over it!

    Scott
    So, you'll tell the officer "no, I don't have to show you anything" ?? The issue of showing proof of driving a car has long been held to be legal. So, what wouldbe the difference witha CHL. He's not searching you, he's asking for you CHL just as if he would ask for identification for any other reason. It is not a violation of your rights.

  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by USM1976 View Post
    So, you'll tell the officer "no, I don't have to show you anything" ?? The issue of showing proof of driving a car has long been held to be legal. So, what wouldbe the difference witha CHL. He's not searching you, he's asking for you CHL just as if he would ask for identification for any other reason. It is not a violation of your rights.
    Unless I am in violation of the law, the LEO has not established "probable cause" This is what is called "infringement." In the state of WA, we had an "open carry" picnic in the middle of Esther Short Park (Downtown Vancouver, WA, right across the state line from Oregon.) Everyone was packing. No one had to "show their ID" (not everyone had a CHL either.)

    "Show us your papers" doesn't pass muster in an "open carry" state. A CHL is not required to carry in the open. The police are not permitted to ask anyone for their identification without "probable cause." These are the typical tactics that are considered "acceptable" in Obama's "police state." Your rights are "obsolete" right? That's okay. Evidently you don't mind "rolling over and playing dead" at every officer's whim.

    It is all being done to "keep you safe" remember?

    Scott

  7. #187
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    Its none of their business, if you are in a state that allows open carry. Should they stop every car just to be sure you have a drivers license? Stop every person exiting a bar to see if they are publically intoxicated? I have never open carried as I prefer to be low key but I support your rights to do so.
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  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.C.BG.380 View Post
    I CC and OC on a daily basis depending on what I'm doing that day. I have only been approached a few times by LEO's and asked to produce an ID and HCP. I was in no way insulted nor did it halt my taskings for the day. I am kind of getting tired of people saying it is their right not to produce an ID when asked by a LEO. I'm trying to get clarity on why people take such a stand on that soap box. Especially when OC'ing you should be prepared to talk to at least one LEO, IMMHO if you want to keep your 2a rights be compliant with the LEO's and get on with your day, no need to quote the constitution or wine bout you rights to someone that knows the laws, and is just trying to keep the peace and do their job.
    Is it an infringement when a LEO asks for an ID? No. They can ask all day, and as long as I have the right to say no, all is well. When they start detaining and demanding ID, then rights are violated. In either case, I always decline to produce ID.

    I'm not going to bother addressing to rest of the ignorant points you tried to make.

  9. #189
    VIP Member Array Smitty901's Avatar
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    Depends if I am opening carrying and doing nothing wrong not suspected of a crime the request is not a violation. The officers refusing to accept my declining to produce one is.
    If I am CC current law requires I produce mt CC permit no problem with that it is the law we passed and agreed to.
    If I am doing nothing but walking the dog on a street see line one again.
    There is no such thing as a harmless or meaningless stop by LEO.

  10. #190
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    And so Round 13 begins...
    USM1976 and tacman605 like this.
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  11. #191
    Senior Member Array USM1976's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    And so Round 13 begins...
    Yeah, kinda beating a dead horse here, huh ???

  12. #192
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    Being asked to identify oneself is different from being asked to present ID. I have no objection to conversation, but requesting ID for activity that doesn't require justification has taken things to a hgher level. I wasn't aware American citizens had to carry " papers". It would seem more reasonable to ask an officer to present his official ID with name, title and rank before speaking with him, to confirm he is within his area of juridiction.

  13. #193
    Senior Member Array USM1976's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KyBill View Post
    Being asked to identify oneself is different from being asked to present ID. I have no objection to conversation, but requesting ID for activity that doesn't require justification has taken things to a hgher level. I wasn't aware American citizens had to carry " papers". It would seem more reasonable to ask an officer to present his official ID with name, title and rank before speaking with him, to confirm he is within his area of juridiction.

    In the State of Texas any police officer in an official capacity can walk into a bar and walk behind the bar and inspect the TABC licenses issued by the state. There is no probable cause needed, and it is so written in the state TABC statutes. This is all without a warrant. Any police officer can check people fishing for their licenses, so, why should it be any different for those carrying handguns ??

    I believe if the law concerning open carry were written properly it would allow police officers to request a CHL carrier to present his license upon request, therefore, alleviating the probable cause issue. It can be done...and it is not a violation of your 4th Amendment rights under the U.S. Constitution.

  14. #194
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USM1976 View Post
    In the State of Texas any police officer in an official capacity can walk into a bar and walk behind the bar and inspect the TABC licenses issued by the state. There is no probable cause needed, and it is so written in the state TABC statutes. This is all without a warrant. Any police officer can check people fishing for their licenses, so, why should it be any different for those carrying handguns ??

    I believe if the law concerning open carry were written properly it would allow police officers to request a CHL carrier to present his license upon request, therefore, alleviating the probable cause issue. It can be done...and it is not a violation of your 4th Amendment rights under the U.S. Constitution.
    You are kidding right..you are seriously advocating this? OK..I will vote for your law if you agree to vote for a law that allows an officer to pull over people at random to check to see if they have a drivers liscense....Any officer at anytime, not just during approved taxe revenue check points .geez..What is the difference there?
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  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by USM1976 View Post
    In the State of Texas any police officer in an official capacity can walk into a bar and walk behind the bar and inspect the TABC licenses issued by the state. There is no probable cause needed, and it is so written in the state TABC statutes. This is all without a warrant. Any police officer can check people fishing for their licenses, so, why should it be any different for those carrying handguns ??

    I believe if the law concerning open carry were written properly it would allow police officers to request a CHL carrier pto present his license upon request, therefore, alleviating the probable cause issue. It can be done...and it is not a violation of your 4th Amendment rights under the U.S. Constitution.
    Well one reason is that , at least in Ky, there is no license or permission required for open carry. And based upon the second ammendment we are protected against people interfering with our right to bear arms. So it's an infringement of that to require a license to open carry in any event.

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