Is a request for your ID really an infringement of your rights?

This is a discussion on Is a request for your ID really an infringement of your rights? within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; In what context are you approached by police officers? Has someone seen your pistol and called 9-1-1? Do you get stopped frequently, where the officers, ...

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Thread: Is a request for your ID really an infringement of your rights?

  1. #31
    Member Array Pioneer's Avatar
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    In what context are you approached by police officers? Has someone seen your pistol and called 9-1-1? Do you get stopped frequently, where the officers, in checking for warrants and license status, discovers your concealed carry status? Do you put gun related stickers all over your car / truck? Although I'm a retired officer, I very often travel to different cities, counties and states, where the local police have no idea who I am. I'm privileged to be certified for interstate carry under LEOSA and have NEVER been approached by a police officer asking me for ID.

    My gut tells me you are doing something that draws unwanted attention, such as open carry. Sure you may have a right to open carry in your state, but in doing so you will draw attention to yourself. With every right, there are also responsibilities. Police officers put their lives on the line trying to protect society, and it's impossible to tell the good guys from the bad guys by just looking at them. Sometimes officers need to check further in order to fulfill their sworn duty. Keep it concealed and you will not likely be asked for ID. If you are trying to make a political point or comment by open carrying, it's working! But perhaps not in the way you intend.

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  3. #32
    Member Array tony1990's Avatar
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    Wow...I am not sure where this debate will go but it has really got me to thinking. That was a great question and great answers now I just need to decide what I would do if Texas becomes OC.

  4. #33
    Senior Member Array theskunk's Avatar
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    If you want to make a point then go to the police station, get a demonsration permit, and have a mini parade. Doing the "In your face 2nd amendment' with the wrong cop, and you will be sorry.

  5. #34
    VIP Member Array Badey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theskunk View Post
    If you want to make a point then go to the police station, get a demonsration permit, and have a mini parade. Doing the "In your face 2nd amendment' with the wrong cop, and you will be sorry.
    This, to me, shows a major problem with law enforcement today. You should not have to worry about being "sorry" for doing something legal, just because you don't bow to some cop's over-inflated ego.


    You can be firm and still kind while standing up for your rights.

    Officers can ask for ID, but if I am not required to produce it, why should I do so? To be courteous? I wonder what the Founding Fathers would have thought of giving up rights so I didn't hurt somebody's feelings...

    Just my $.02
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  6. #35
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    Can't speak to other states but in TN it is against the law to "go about armed" for any reason. Our handgun carry law does states that possession of a valid Handgun Carry Permit (HCP) is a defense to that charge. So it isn't a "violation of your rights" in this state---you either produce your permit when asked by LE or be subject to the charge of "going about armed". You have the right to carry a handgun BUT you have to possess a HCP. Also, not having your permit with you is a violation of the "going about armed" clause. LEO might give you a pass if he can verify or not (permit # is same as DL), otherwise he can charge you. Might not be a popular stance but it is how our state laws on weapons are written. Like I said, can't speak to other states.
    There isn't a wall high enough to stop illegal immigrants when the reward on the other side is free health care, jobs, driver's licenses and free college tuition subsidized by American taxpayers.

  7. #36
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    "Can't speak to other states but in TN it is against the law to "go about armed" for any reason."

    Weird. Just plain weird.
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  8. #37
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    OldVet, I agree its weird. Another weird thing is the HCP law doesn't specify "how" you carry so open or concealed is ok. Some say the legislature purposely left it vague so everyone would be satisfied.
    R.C.BG.380 likes this.
    There isn't a wall high enough to stop illegal immigrants when the reward on the other side is free health care, jobs, driver's licenses and free college tuition subsidized by American taxpayers.

  9. #38
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    "Vague" laws are tough to uphold in higher courts, generally going in favor of the accused/convicted.
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  10. #39
    Senior Member Array theskunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badey View Post
    This, to me, shows a major problem with law enforcement today. You should not have to worry about being "sorry" for doing something legal, just because you don't bow to some cop's over-inflated ego.


    You can be firm and still kind while standing up for your rights.

    Officers can ask for ID, but if I am not required to produce it, why should I do so? To be courteous? I wonder what the Founding Fathers would have thought of giving up rights so I didn't hurt somebody's feelings...

    Just my $.02


    Kodak makes a HD video cam, the size of a deck of cards, that will be your best friend. I carry a card with the Fl state statutes. I get stopped - "Here is my ID and the state statutes"

  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.C.BG.380 View Post
    no need to quote the constitution or wine bout you rights to someone that knows the laws, and is just trying to keep the peace and do their job.
    That there's the problem - they don't know the laws they are employed to enforce.

    The people you are complaining about just aren't willing to voluntarily go as far down the slope as you are.
    bombthrower77 likes this.

  12. #41
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    if LEOs think and have good reason to think you may be committing a crime or have committed a crime, they should have the authority to ask for your ID so they can run a check to make sure you have no outstanding warrants or have a criminal past.

    when I was stopped & frisked by the NYPD years ago, they told me that they stopped me because I and my friend looked like two suspects they were looking for, and gave details of the subscription.

    as long as they have a good reason, i got no problem.

    its when they simply profile folks due to their race, that bugs me.
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  13. #42
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    OP you seem to do fine and have no problems. Some people act like turds and do have problems. Don't be a turd and hopefully you won't run into any either because, well, two turds getting together probably means a bad day. IANAL.
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  14. #43
    Member Array Maxwell47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RightsEroding View Post
    I submit sir; your thinking is dangerous to free people everywhere.

    I further submit, your thinking is precisely how the Nazi's began to take power; please, read your history.

    We have already started to take steps closer to a police state. We are closer to it now than 20 years ago.

    People like you frighten me far more than guns.
    For agreeing to produce ID to A LEO in public?!?!. Wow! You really are off in the left field of intolerance, aren't you.... At least we agree in one thing, We scare the begezits out of each other.
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  15. #44
    VIP Member Array SmokinFool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pioneer View Post
    In what context are you approached by police officers? Has someone seen your pistol and called 9-1-1? Do you get stopped frequently, where the officers, in checking for warrants and license status, discovers your concealed carry status? Do you put gun related stickers all over your car / truck? Although I'm a retired officer, I very often travel to different cities, counties and states, where the local police have no idea who I am. I'm privileged to be certified for interstate carry under LEOSA and have NEVER been approached by a police officer asking me for ID.

    My gut tells me you are doing something that draws unwanted attention, such as open carry. Sure you may have a right to open carry in your state, but in doing so you will draw attention to yourself. With every right, there are also responsibilities. Police officers put their lives on the line trying to protect society, and it's impossible to tell the good guys from the bad guys by just looking at them. Sometimes officers need to check further in order to fulfill their sworn duty. Keep it concealed and you will not likely be asked for ID. If you are trying to make a political point or comment by open carrying, it's working! But perhaps not in the way you intend.

    A line from Jurassic Park, regarding tampering with DNA molecules; "Just because you CAN, doesn't mean you SHOULD."
    I certainly agree with you that with rights comes responsibility. In fact I have said exactly that many times. However, I disagree with you that OC automatically puts a target on our backs in the eyes of law enforcement. Although I have no hard numbers to back this up, I would guess that the majority of people who carry openly have never been "harassed" by any LEO. I know I never have been, despite the fact that I know I have been seen OC'ing by a LEO on more than one occasion. I also disagree that OC is something that may be a right, but not a good idea. I think it's a great idea - for me. If it's not a good idea for you - great, don't do it. Every carrier needs to decide whether to carry concealed or openly (where allowed by law).

  16. #45
    Member Array carracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pioneer View Post
    In what context are you approached by police officers? Has someone seen your pistol and called 9-1-1? Do you get stopped frequently, where the officers, in checking for warrants and license status, discovers your concealed carry status? Do you put gun related stickers all over your car / truck? Although I'm a retired officer, I very often travel to different cities, counties and states, where the local police have no idea who I am. I'm privileged to be certified for interstate carry under LEOSA and have NEVER been approached by a police officer asking me for ID.

    My gut tells me you are doing something that draws unwanted attention, such as open carry. Sure you may have a right to open carry in your state, but in doing so you will draw attention to yourself. With every right, there are also responsibilities. Police officers put their lives on the line trying to protect society, and it's impossible to tell the good guys from the bad guys by just looking at them. Sometimes officers need to check further in order to fulfill their sworn duty. Keep it concealed and you will not likely be asked for ID. If you are trying to make a political point or comment by open carrying, it's working! But perhaps not in the way you intend.

    A line from Jurassic Park, regarding tampering with DNA molecules; "Just because you CAN, doesn't mean you SHOULD."
    Spoken like a true JBT. "gun related stickers" as a reason to stop and detain? Impossible to tell the bad guys from the good guys just by looking at them. Just how many bad guys have you seen open carrying? There is no need to check further if I have not given reason to believe I have broken the law. According to the SCOTUS the mere presence of a gun is not reasonable suspicion.

    This is not a thread about how you feel we should comply to the method of carry you want us to do. It's about why we feel no need to ID ourselves to you.
    bombthrower77 likes this.

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