OC Baiting: Two Edged Sword?

This is a discussion on OC Baiting: Two Edged Sword? within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; With a continued erosion of our rights; I have started to re-think (OC Baiters) First I ponder the definition. Perhaps they are actually doing us ...

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 60
Like Tree74Likes

Thread: OC Baiting: Two Edged Sword?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array RightsEroding's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    1,168

    OC Baiting: Two Edged Sword?

    With a continued erosion of our rights; I have started to re-think (OC Baiters)

    First I ponder the definition.

    Perhaps they are actually doing us all a favor. Many of us either don't have the guts to do it, are uncomfortable doing it or simply choose not too.
    That's fine.

    Why not exercise the right?
    By this so called "baiting" does this not bring to light that OC is legal in many states and places?
    Does it not educate the public who may not know it is a right?

    Openly protesting with signs has purpose; to bring it to the attention of the masses via publicity.
    One could call a rally "Baiting." The police will probably come out to see what's going on.

    So; I am re-thinking my position.
    Maybe these so called baiters are OK?
    "When those who are governed do too little, those who govern can, and will, do too much." Ronald Reagan

    Do what you can; then do what you must

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    VIP Member Array Smitty901's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    3,230
    They are not baiting. If they are Open carrying with in the law then LEO have no right to interfere with them. The ones baiting are the LEO trying to trip a person up into saying or doing something they can then use to arrests them.
    Is a Black man walking down the street in a city baiting LEO , No neither is a citizen OC with in the law.
    What you have is LEO trying to enforce their will on others to promote their Agenda.
    No different than the Madison City police trying to tell us we can not fly American flags on our bikes because it offends others . So what.

  4. #3
    VIP Member
    Array OldVet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    S. Florida, north of the Miami mess, south of the Mouse trap
    Posts
    15,739
    If the matter ends up on Youtube, it's baiting. If the matter ends up in the Supreme Court, it's standing up for your rights.
    Last edited by OldVet; November 29th, 2012 at 12:39 PM.
    Retired USAF E-8. Remember: You're being watched!
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  5. #4
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    25,780
    IMO ...

    Baiting is seeking a confrontation for confrontation's sake, whether it ends up on video or not. Done badly, it can have disastrous results in the long run (changing attitudes, statutes). That said, it can also be done well (ie, the independence movement in Gandhi-era India), having many benefits in the long run.

    Simply going about one's business is not baiting.

    Standing up for what's right and defending against obvious wrongs isn't baiting. Can have long-term benefits (if done reasonably and well, changing attitudes and statutes) (ie, the "civil rights" struggle in the 1950's and '60's).
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  6. #5
    Distinguished Member Array dben002's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Kernersville NC
    Posts
    1,388
    Not real sure about other places but here the LEO's (if they really want to) can confiscate your weapon and have you appear in court to answer to "Terror of the public" charges. All they need is one person to say "Oh..he's got a gun I'm afraid"....Now if you're just OC'ing walking around you will probably get your weapon back in time but how long will that be and how much money is it going to cost you to do so.....plus you will have to go to court.....and this is a OC state....but probably not worth it........
    There are two types of people who carry concealed weapons...Responsible ones and Irresponsible ones...which are you...

  7. #6
    VIP Member Array Thunder71's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Minnesota, USA
    Posts
    2,505
    If I walk around with my OWB holster, shirt tucked, gun secured, minding my own business, how is that baiting regardless of where it ends up?

    If I'm open carrying and have an AR15 strapped over my shoulder walking down main street decked out in 5.11 gear, with a camera man that might be different, and I should expect to be questioned, but not treated with disrespect.

    Both (here) are completely legal.

    Is it a double standard, yep...

    That said, walking cautiously down main street wearing all black at 3am window shopping is also completely legal - just really suspicious.

    I've also come to the conclusion that the opinions on this vary greatly upon your location... I love having the choice in Minnesota, we don't have a requirement to carry concealed or open, it's just called a 'permit to carry'. I like it that way, and hope people on both sides don't screw it up for me.
    mg27 likes this.

  8. #7
    Distinguished Member Array dben002's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Kernersville NC
    Posts
    1,388
    Thunder71...."That said, so is walking cautiously down main street wearing all black at 3am window shopping.".....is this with or without the AR15 strapped over your shoulder. ??? LOL
    Thunder71 likes this.
    There are two types of people who carry concealed weapons...Responsible ones and Irresponsible ones...which are you...

  9. #8
    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Western Colorado
    Posts
    4,359
    OC Baiting: Two Edged Sword?
    It will be interesting to get a perspective from the California contingent here.
    limatunes and ericb327 like this.

  10. #9
    VIP Member Array Smitty901's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    3,230
    If as it use to be we could assume that 90% of LEO had one cause. To enforce the law, to protect the public. To be an example of justice and a picture of what the finest in out community was, this would not be an issue if that were the case today.
    That has not been the case for some time now and is getting worst everyday.
    In everyone of these so called baiting cases right down the street there were gangsters dealing drugs and all short of other people that needed to be looked at. But the PC of the day does not allow them to go there.
    Leo officers once the foot soldiers of the justice system our first line of defense against the BG's our Go to person in time of distress have a new mission and it has nothing to do with any of that.

  11. #10
    VIP Member Array Thunder71's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Minnesota, USA
    Posts
    2,505
    Quote Originally Posted by wmhawth View Post
    It will be interesting to get a perspective from the California contingent here.
    People will say open carriers ruined it, but the fact is - they had no choice but to open carry or not carry at all.
    ericb327 likes this.

  12. #11
    Member Array carracer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Nampa, Id.
    Posts
    403
    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    If the matter ends up on Youtbe, it's baiting. If the matter ends up in the Supreme Court, it's standing up for your rights.
    In my opinion, almost correct. There is a fair amount of the "Baiting" videos being produced specifically for you tube. There are also the ones that use a recorder to protect themselves from the over zealous actions of leo that exceed their authorities. Kinda the "Rodney King" type of thing. Well, that may be a bad example, but, you know what I mean.

  13. #12
    Ex Member Array dbglock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Durham, N.C.
    Posts
    278
    Quote Originally Posted by dben002 View Post
    .....and this is a OC state....
    I would argue against that point. I don't consider NC an OC-friendly state, I consider it an OC-possible state, because while we have no laws against OC, we also don't have any laws in favor of it. It just isn't mentioned and as you said if one person complains an OC'er can be thrown over the hood of his car and handcuffed. That actually happened in Cary to a member of this forum who reported it here. It depends a lot on whether you're OC'ing in the boonies or in a metro area.
    tacman605 likes this.

  14. #13
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    7,097
    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    If the matter ends up on Youtbe, it's baiting. If the matter ends up in the Supreme Court, it's standing up for your rights.
    QFT.

    If it's important to you to "exercise" your rights, by all means OC. Only if that's truly your carry method of choice. But, don't make it a you tube production. Just do it. Defend your rights to privacy as well, if you can, legally. But don't show me the video.

    Video productions of folks open carrying, just to prove a point; is as stupid to me as permit holders wearing badges, or sashes, or caps, or lapel pins, or Tshirts. Both make you appear stupid, IMO.

    LEO has enough heartache in doing his job.... He doesn't need the aggravation. Some people are scared of guns. Some will report seeing a man with one.

    The poor LEO is duty bound to investigate. His time is better spent catching speeders, red light runners and even jay walkers... than it is dealing with a person who is violating the norms of society, even if breaking no law.

    If you want to win the hearts and minds of the antis, do it with reasonable discourse, one on one... Or, get a parade permit and have an OC parade... handing out flyers on why the Second amendment is important...

    But, tell me, who walks around either with a camera crew, or carrying a video recording device without having something to prove or some desire to call attention to themselves? With or without a gun? You don't see 'em doing it without a gun, do you? There'd be nothing to see there, would there?

    The problem is not so much LEO, as it is the people... the people who have a concern about a man with a gun... frankly, they're more likely to see the gun than they are the video camera. The people won't see the you tube video... you and I may, because it's posted here or on some other site... But the people who are scared of the guns won't see it unless it's in the news... And the media won't cover it... unless they can make the carrier look like the complete ashbin he's being.

    We do, as citizens; have a right... maybe even an obligation, to stand up for our rights... But, making a circus of it demeans the goal...
    wmhawth, tacman605 and ericb327 like this.
    All that said....
    It could be worse.
    __________________________________________________
    "The History of our Revolution will be one continued Lye from one end to the other."
    John Adams

  15. #14
    New Member Array John_Bender's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    4
    If I have my license and within my legal means, why should it be an issue?

    I'm OK with a scenario similar to this:

    Officer: Good afternoon, got a call just have to ask you a few questions.
    Me: No problem.
    Officer: Do you have a permit to carry?
    Me: Yes sir, in my wallet.
    Officer: May I see it please?
    Me: Sure, hang on it's in my back pocket.
    Officer: Thank you, have a nice day.
    Me: Thanks, you too.

    I am not OK with:

    Officer: Get the **** down, now!
    Me: Holy crap, someone is in deep doo doo!
    Officer: You, with the gun, get down NOW!
    Me: Before I can put 2 and 2 together I'm laying face first in the dirt with my arm shoved up behind my head, handcuffs clicking.

    Etc, etc, etc.

  16. #15
    VIP Member Array BigJon10125's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    California
    Posts
    3,063
    I really expected to see a story about a guy OCing a broadsword...
    BigJon


    "Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt" ~ Mark Twain

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

cops and bait houses to nail drug dealer

,

nail bait sword

,

open carrying a sword

Click on a term to search for related topics.