Open Carry for newbies

This is a discussion on Open Carry for newbies within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; It hasn't happened in my state. A few people here do open carry but by and large it's seldom seen in populated areas and it's ...

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  1. #31
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    It hasn't happened in my state. A few people here do open carry but by and large it's seldom seen in populated areas and it's been legal here for a long time and that right shows no sign of disappearing.

    As for me, I carry a gun with no other agenda than self defense. That purpose seems best served to me by carrying in a manner that doesn't draw attention to myself.
    The simpletons in Denver are going to try to quash a bunch of our rights this session. We need to stay in touch with our 2A friends up there.

    In regards to the OP. As has been stated people carry for different reasons. Self defense or to make a statement to each his own. To me the problem is the ones who are doing it to make a statement and get into a confrontation have a negative affect on those of us that carry for self defense.

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by bklynboy View Post
    I have always assumed that people who open carry when they can carry concealed are choosing open carry for political reasons since - IMHO - the tactical disadvantages of open carry outweigh the advantages
    IMO those that carry one method, but argue that another method of carry is wrong, are as much of a problem as those who are against guns. They play into the anti's hands by dividing our ranks. As long as a mode of carry is legal, it should be embraced by all that carry. If you choose not to carry that way fine, but don't tell those who do they are wrong.
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  4. #33
    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bklynboy View Post
    I have always assumed that people who open carry when they can carry concealed are choosing open carry for political reasons since - IMHO - the tactical disadvantages of open carry outweigh the advantages
    If true I would hope that in that moment of truth when they really do come up against bonafide bad guys that they will be able to skin those smokewagons and actually use them for something besides making a statement.

  5. #34
    Ex Member Array Pythius's Avatar
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    if everyone has the right to CC, then ANYONE can be carrying a gun.

    OCers simply remove the element of surprise and suspision, that might make thugs think everyone is armed.

  6. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pythius View Post
    if everyone has the right to CC, then ANYONE can be carrying a gun.

    OCers simply remove the element of surprise and suspision, that might make thugs think everyone is armed.
    Put yourself in the place of the BG. If you see 3 people walking down the street without guns, or 3 people walking down the street with guns, which would you be more likely to accost?
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  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pythius View Post
    you're comparing a deadly weapon, to a hot dog with relish?
    I would rather use that then Comparing how many people die at the hands of Medical Professionals Compared to dying from Guns.
    This is posted on another forum, 6200% more likely to die at the hands of a Medical Professional than by a Gun.
    These data show that FDA-approved prescription drugs kill 290 Americans every single day, meaning that for mass shootings to approach that number, you'd have to see a Colorado Batman movie massacre take place EVERY HOUR of every day, 365 days a year.
    Why doctors are more dangerous than guns - new Health Ranger investigation video
    Lets Unite and REMIND our Government that WE are the source of their authority and that WE demand our Rights be returned, Unabridged, Non-infringed, without denial or disparagement.

  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    Put yourself in the place of the BG. If you see 3 people walking down the street without guns, or 3 people walking down the street with guns, which would you be more likely to accost?
    increasing folks with CC, decreases crime-rates.

    Statistics show violent crimes down since passage of concealed carry law

    There is literally living proof in Florida that its concealed carry and other pro-gun laws save lives.

    From 1987, when the concealed carry law was passed, until 2006, murder and non-negligent manslaughter rates in Florida plunged 45 percent, to 6.2 per 100,000 persons from 11.4, according to crime rate statistics compiled annually by the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

    More people are alive today in Florida thanks to those laws, which kicked off a nationwide trend toward adoption of conceal-carry provisions. Today almost 40 states have followed Florida's lead.

    Florida was light years ahead of the federal government. The U.S. Supreme Court just last month — June 26 — invalidated a federal law banning handgun possession within homes in the District of Columbia, a federal jurisdiction. Importantly, the court held the Second Amendment codified a pre-existing, inherent human right to possession of handguns. "The right to self-defence is the first law of nature," the court wrote, quoting an early American constitutional scholar, and when individuals are prohibited from keeping and bearing arms, "liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction."

    "The mere potential for an armed citizenry deters violent crime," The Heartland Institute argued in its friend-of-the-court brief it submitted in the case. Heartland cited a prison study in which "approximately 40 percent of the inmates interviewed reported that they chose not to commit a particular crime because they feared that their victim would be armed."

    FBI crime rate statistics for Florida prove that point. Every type of serious crime has dropped significantly in Florida since 1987. Burglaries are down 58 percent, robbery is down 47 percent, forcible rape is down 28 percent, and aggravated assaults are down 20 percent.

    The data indicates that even the mere possibility that Florida citizens might be armed and therefore have the capability of protecting themselves are deterrents to criminals.

    Police can't be everywhere — and courts across the country have ruled that in fact municipal police forces have no duty to protect their citizenry. In the notorious case of Riss v. City of New York, the highest court in the state of New York ruled in 1968 that a young woman maimed and scarred by her boyfriend's hired "thug" had no right to police protection, even though she had repeatedly reported to police he was threatening to attack her.

    The dissenting judge wrote, "What makes the city's position particularly difficult to understand is that, in conformity to the dictates of the law, Linda did not carry any weapon for self-defense. Thus, by a rather bitter irony she was required to rely for protection on the City of New York which now denies all responsibility to her."

    And, as David Kopel, noted Second Amendment scholar and director of research at the Independence Institute, argued more than a decade ago, "If a gun permit helps a woman feel safe enough to go jogging, her increased sense of security is an important social benefit."

    Crime rates are dropping dramatically in Florida, and people undoubtedly feel safer. Florida's pro-gun laws are working.

    Martin, an attorney, is senior fellow at The Heartland Institute.

  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdBro View Post
    I'm all for OC being legal (as it is in my state). However, I think--unless you're in a rural area--that OC is basically just to make a point and draw attention. I see no reason to OC in a heavily populated area. CC keep attention off of you and police even prefer it because it doesn't cause a ruckus.

    I think people who OC in populated areas (aside from cities where it's common/normal) are simply looking for attention.
    I am a long-time OC'er. I live in an area with a heavy population and do not OC for attention.

    Generally when I am out with my Wife or family, I am rarely approached, but when I do get attention, it is generally folks asking me if its real, if it is legal to OC, or to ask me why I OC.

    Those that I inform that yes, it is real, will generally ask me one of the other questions.. Is it legal or why I carry? After explaining that here in Washington State our State Constitution is an improvement on the US 2A by stating that we have the right to bear arms for self protection, protection of others, and for protection of the State. Then explain that I carry for the protection of self or others and just like a spare tire, I do not carry hoping and expecting to use it, but carrying in the event that I happen to find I need it.. A few of them have actually thanked me for carrying for the right reasons.

    Is education my purpose? No, but it is a side-effect. Could I carry concealed? Sure, but why should I CC, when OC is legal, and OC in and of itself does not require a permit here, where CC'ing requires a CPL to CC.

    By OC'ing I do see that I am desensitizing the general public from seeing openly and legally carried firearms in every day life.
    Lets Unite and REMIND our Government that WE are the source of their authority and that WE demand our Rights be returned, Unabridged, Non-infringed, without denial or disparagement.

  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pythius View Post
    Here's one very logical argument AGAINST OC.

    if everyone who carries a firearm does it concealed, than ANYONE could possibly be carrying a gun, which is a great deterent against thieves, rapists, etc.

    however, if everyone who carries a firearm does it openly, then rapists, thievs, etc....can automatically assume that if you're not carring an exposed firearm...then you're not carrying at all.

    concealed carry creates the possibility that we are ALL...carrying.
    Now, let us look at reality.

    When criminals can see that there are many who are carrying openly and know that many more may actually be legally carrying concealed, then those criminals will go someplace where it is hard for the average citizen to legally be armed.

    Like Chicago!
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  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by LkWd_Don View Post
    I am a long-time OC'er. I live in an area with a heavy population and do not OC for attention.

    Generally when I am out with my Wife or family, I am rarely approached, but when I do get attention, it is generally folks asking me if its real, if it is legal to OC, or to ask me why I OC.

    Those that I inform that yes, it is real, will generally ask me one of the other questions.. Is it legal or why I carry? After explaining that here in Washington State our State Constitution is an improvement on the US 2A by stating that we have the right to bear arms for self protection, protection of others, and for protection of the State. Then explain that I carry for the protection of self or others and just like a spare tire, I do not carry hoping and expecting to use it, but carrying in the event that I happen to find I need it.. A few of them have actually thanked me for carrying for the right reasons.

    Is education my purpose? No, but it is a side-effect. Could I carry concealed? Sure, but why should I CC, when OC is legal, and OC in and of itself does not require a permit here, where CC'ing requires a CPL to CC.

    By OC'ing I do see that I am desensitizing the general public from seeing openly and legally carried firearms in every day life.
    Keep it up. We can do both ways here. It's no big thing with the people. Hell in about a week from now,60 of us are going to a steakhouse for dinner. Again no big deal. By the way oc or cc, I try to have a tactical mind set.
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  12. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pythius View Post
    if everyone has the right to CC, then ANYONE can be carrying a gun.

    OCers simply remove the element of surprise and suspision, that might make thugs think everyone is armed.
    Your hypothetical situations assume EVERYBODY will either OC or CC. The reality is that people do both. When both exist, bad guys see the OCers as being armed, and still have to assume everybody else is CC.

  13. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by LkWd_Don View Post
    I am a long-time OC'er. I live in an area with a heavy population and do not OC for attention.

    Generally when I am out with my Wife or family, I am rarely approached, but when I do get attention, it is generally folks asking me if its real, if it is legal to OC, or to ask me why I OC.

    Those that I inform that yes, it is real, will generally ask me one of the other questions.. Is it legal or why I carry? After explaining that here in Washington State our State Constitution is an improvement on the US 2A by stating that we have the right to bear arms for self protection, protection of others, and for protection of the State. Then explain that I carry for the protection of self or others and just like a spare tire, I do not carry hoping and expecting to use it, but carrying in the event that I happen to find I need it.. A few of them have actually thanked me for carrying for the right reasons.

    Is education my purpose? No, but it is a side-effect. Could I carry concealed? Sure, but why should I CC, when OC is legal, and OC in and of itself does not require a permit here, where CC'ing requires a CPL to CC.

    By OC'ing I do see that I am desensitizing the general public from seeing openly and legally carried firearms in every day life.
    Does it ever freak people in stores out? Either customers or people working. I could see a gas station worker totally think the wrong thing if they have never seen an OCer before.

  14. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by bklynboy View Post
    I have always assumed that people who open carry when they can carry concealed are choosing open carry for political reasons since - IMHO - the tactical disadvantages of open carry outweigh the advantages
    There is no tactical advantage to concealed carrying - IMHO - the element of surprise is in favor of the bad guys. If you are concealed and have to react you are already behind the curve.. IMHO the deterence factor outweighs the disadvantages of open carry.

    The real thing to have is situation awareness...regardless of method of carry, or not carrying. Without it, you are at a disadvantage with either method of carry.
    Last edited by carracer; December 3rd, 2012 at 08:52 AM.
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  15. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdBro View Post
    Does it ever freak people in stores out? Either customers or people working. I could see a gas station worker totally think the wrong thing if they have never seen an OCer before.
    A long time ago, I can remember someone saying "Oh My God, he's got a gun" but then before I could turn to respond, I heard a voice I thought I recognized say, that's legal, I did turn and found it was SGT Renninger, one of our now fallen four Lakewood Police Officers. I miss chatting with the three of them that I knew personally.
    Lets Unite and REMIND our Government that WE are the source of their authority and that WE demand our Rights be returned, Unabridged, Non-infringed, without denial or disparagement.

  16. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by LkWd_Don View Post
    A long time ago, I can remember someone saying "Oh My God, he's got a gun" but then before I could turn to respond, I heard a voice I thought I recognized say, that's legal, I did turn and found it was SGT Renninger, one of our now fallen four Lakewood Police Officers. I miss chatting with the three of them that I knew personally.
    I'm impressed it doesn't happen more often. If I OCed in Milwaukee, it would start total chaos.

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