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NC - Can an officer run your gun is pulled over for speeding?

This is a discussion on NC - Can an officer run your gun is pulled over for speeding? within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Hmm can we extend that a bit? Refuse to show ID when cashing a check or using a credit card. No law I know of ...

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Thread: NC - Can an officer run your gun is pulled over for speeding?

  1. #61
    Fla
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    Hmm can we extend that a bit? Refuse to show ID when cashing a check or using a credit card. No law I know of says they have the right to demand ID from you.
    Heck They only issue a state ID or DL so you have something to scrape ice off the windshield with. Or maybe cut the drugs into neat lines. We are talking state laws not federal ones. Officers often ( esp in crime areas ) will check for weapons for their own safety. As far as illegal search and seizure, to me that is different than a safety maneuver by a LEO. IF something comes up and goes to court THEN I would push to have it thrown out based on illegal search and seizure.
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  2. #62
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    "Refuse to show ID when cashing a check or using a credit card. No law I know of says they have the right to demand ID from you."

    Those actions are to protect your accounts. No law says a business has to accept CCs or checks either, neither being "legal tender."
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
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  3. #63
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    And your point? Mine was there is no law requiring you to produce ID for check or CC, so stand on your rights and demand they take it with violating your rights. Same logic.
    Running tags, vins and gun serial numbers protects your property.
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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC Bullseye View Post
    First, this wasn't just a random stop. You were being detained for possibly breaking the law by speeding. That puts a bit of a different light on it and him running the serial numbers on a firearm found during a traffic infraction stop isn't unusual.

    As a side note, there have been instances where a totally law abiding person was in the possession of a stolen firearm that they had no clue it was stolen due to the fact that it had been passed through numerous private sales.
    And there are instances where totally normal looking people walking down the street were wanted child molesters; so everyone walking down the street should be stopped and IDed????

  5. #65
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    so stand on your rights and demand they take it with violating your rights.
    Is there a word missing there somewhere? I like a good, friendly debate but, admittedly, I'm easily confused. How can running the serial number of a piece of my property that's currently in my possession be "protecting my property"?
    there is no law requiring you to produce ID for check or CC
    Okay, but there ARE laws that say business owners have the right to refuse service. They well may have weighed the risk of accepting checks without I.D. against the resulting loss-of-revenue by their conditional insistence to see I.D., and have decided that your refusal means you don't seriously want to...shop there. Do the simple thing, carry green, folding, dead Presidents. They don't require anything beyond the most basic of math skills.

    I don't see how the same logic applies to a traffic stop.
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  6. #66
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    It protects you because they can find your stolen weapon.
    Most seem to be missing the point of illegal search and seizure in an encounter with a LEO with the LEO doing REASONABLE safety vs stopping you as you pass by, doing a strip search and seizing your car that you where headed for. Putting a weapon out of harms way during the encounter is NOT seizure. Seizure is kiss it bye bye.
    Running tag and vin is the same as serial number check. When he got behind you did he have reason to think your car was stolen? Wrong tag? No Insurance? Then I guess you can have your ticket for no insurance and no valid DL thrown out of court because he had no reasonable cause.
    Now, is some bimbo politician going to say "Hey, people had over their ID with out question, lets do away with the amendment."? NOPE Stand on your rights ref search and seizure when you go to court. If someone wants to push it on the street don't be surprised if they eat dirt. No Cause? How long do you think it would take him to think of a cause?
    Common sense must rule. We live in a society that must get along if we are to thrive. By law you could stand on a corner and yell in the ear of every person that passes, every profanity you know. It is free speech. Go for it. Common sense says not such a good idea.
    There is over 20 million illegal aliens in the US. They drain lots of tax money. Do we go around checking every person on the street? Nope. Why? The same constitution. If they stop the person for any cause, can they check. Yep. This could go on forever but MY point is there is a time and place for everything. Being macho man to a LEO is not one of them. Have a problem with the officers conduct, take it to court otherwise let him do his job, get done quick and move on. While he is tied up with a face to face with macho man, other calls are waiting for him. Go ahead, hold him up, delay him. That woman getting raped can wait.
    Do I side with the LEO? Duh, yep. Don't be surprised that in the not to distant future, ID chips will be implanted. They already have them for medical history in case you hit the ER unconscious and can't tell them who your are or allergies.
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  7. #67
    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    And there are instances where totally normal looking people walking down the street were wanted child molesters; so everyone walking down the street should be stopped and IDed????
    If they were walking down the street and committed a crime that was observed by a LEO then yes, they should be stopped and ID'd.

    As I was trying to relay in my post, if a person is stopped for breaking the law the terms a a little different than just a random stop. In conjunction with that, there have been cases where a person stopped for a minor violation was found to be in possession of a stolen firearm that they were unaware of the fact that it was stolen since they acquired it in a private sale. That gun could have been passed through several private sales by totally unknowing people since most states don't require a SN check for private sales.
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  8. #68
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    Guns can "legally" change hands many times with no registration, no S/N tracking--all perfectly legal. So unless an officer has reason to suspect a gun is stolen, other than being nosy, what is his basis for running S/N? In that case, why doesn't he also run my credit cards to see if they're stolen, my tag, my car, etc.

    I expect a bank to verify ID of anyone attempting to draw money from my accounts to protect my assets and theirs. I hope a store asks for ID to verify someone isn't using my stolen CC--to protect my credit and the store's income. But this is no comparison nor a reasonable argument in regards to an officer randomly running firearm S/N for no other reason than to see if something pops up.

    So how is running the S/N on a gun in my possession "protecting" me?
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
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  9. #69
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    Running a license plate is fine, since it is in plain view and not considered private. You don't run the vin of a vehicle unless you have it stopped for a traffic violation and the information tied to the license plate isn't jiving with the vehicle you have stopped.

    Running the serial number of a driver's firearm is really a search and the officer should have a good reason for doing it, not just "because I want to see if it is stolen". Laptops, Ipads, cellphones, digital cameras, etc are often stolen, more so than firearms. Should the officer start running those serial numbers because the person has one of them in their vehicle? If called to a house for a call; domestic, noise complaint, dog crapping in the neighbors yard, the officer does not have grounds to start running the serial numbers of everything he sees. What if there is a firearm hanging over a fireplace or in a visible gun cabinet with a glass door, what difference is that when compared to a traffic stop??

    I'm a LEO here in PA and one of my duties is that of a firearms instructor. Every year during out firearms training and qualifications, one module I go over with the officer is civilian carry. I often hear officers over the radio running a firearm during a traffic stop. When asked what do you think they doing, someone will say; checking to see if it is stolen or checking to see if it comes back to the driver.

    Addressing the "stolen" issue, I then ask, did they run anything else in the vehicle that might have a serial number. Of course the answer is always, no. Then why are you running the firearm? I tell them that they are treading on an illegal search, since they have no reason to believe the firearm is stolen. Instead they are doing it "just because". Just because, somewhere in their learning phase, someone told them this is how it is done.

    As for finding out who it belongs to, in PA there is no registry of firearms. There is only a data base of firearm transfers. A person may have a firearm that they bought when they lived in another state and it will not show up in the data base. Or it may have been given to them by a parent or grandparent which is legal in PA. Or, you may stop a female and the handgun may have been purchased by her husband. Officers have "illegally" seized firearms because no record was found in the data base or it didn't "come back to the person carrying". Both are illegal seizures.
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  10. #70
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    My state has no data base that can be accessed from a police vehicle.
    The easy way is always mined.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by CIBMike View Post
    My state has no data base that can be accessed from a police vehicle.
    Even if no agency in your state has computers in their cars, which I doubt, they are certainly only a mike away from a 911 center that can access all types of info on vehicles and drivers.

  12. #72
    JNC
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    I do not find this acceptable. I can see both points of view but I'd be very concerned if LEO took my firearm into his possession out of my view. If I were in the OP's shoes, I think I would have clearly stated that I do not consent to any search and that I do not consent to the seizure. If the LEO forced the issue I would not resist but make sure I took his information and then contacted an attorney (friend) to check validity of the seizure. In addition I would not hand the weapon to the LEO. I would allow the LEO to open the passenger door to access it.

    With that being said, I live in NC (I do have a CCW) and have been stopped more times than I can count. the LEO's I have encountered have been professional and courteous. Every time I have given notification of having a permit and status/location of weapon they just say thank you and there's nothing else to it.

    The only time I was "hassled" by LEO was at a road check. I am not allowed to carry at work and my job has me travel to different work sites. Thus I was not carrying. When stopped I notified that I have a permit but am not carrying. The LEO proceeded to give me grief about NOT carrying. I gave a weak excuse for not being allowed due to work and his response was- does your employer own your car?? Point taken. Thank you Officer.

    I honestly can say every NC LEO from local deputies, and local PD, to State Troopers, have been extremely professional.
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  13. #73
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    I see nothing wrong with an officer running a gun number . Long as he doesn't exceed that level unprovoked by any of my actions . I am one who desperately hopes some of my treasured collection turns up , and this is probably as good a chance as any that they will . Most of them being upper end hunting rifles and old military guns . Ian thinking that some one caught carrying them to go hunting would be a likely way for them to turn up . Kenneth

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenneth66 View Post
    I see nothing wrong with an officer running a gun number . Long as he doesn't exceed that level unprovoked by any of my actions . I am one who desperately hopes some of my treasured collection turns up , and this is probably as good a chance as any that they will . Most of them being upper end hunting rifles and old military guns . Ian thinking that some one caught carrying them to go hunting would be a likely way for them to turn up . Kenneth
    So, if an officer comes to your house for whatever reason, are you okay with him running the serial number of everything inside your house?

  15. #75
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    No, what is in my house is not being commuted on a public highway . As for me I feel what is being commuted in our vehicles is some of their business . After all , our highways are one of the major routes of drug trafficking which has destroyed many lives in our country .
    I have had several encounters with various levels of law enforcement while carrying multiple guns for matches , target shooting and sometimes just plain open carry . I have never been treated ill because of it .
    Kenneth

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