What do you guys think about this video? - Page 6

What do you guys think about this video?

This is a discussion on What do you guys think about this video? within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by pscipio03 So, by what you are saying, I legally can not be anywhere near a cop when he is pulling someone over ...

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  1. #76
    Member Array SIG_guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pscipio03 View Post
    So, by what you are saying, I legally can not be anywhere near a cop when he is pulling someone over or doing any routine stop. Not even on the curb looking on.
    In Oklahoma; no you cant you would be interfering with the duties of a peace officer, this is officer safety, I pull someone over for a movig violation, and you are within a non reasonable or prudent distance and are carrying a pistol and when asked to remove yourself you state what am I doing wrong and I am just here to watch you, the traffic stop just ended and now we are going to talk about you. Its not rocket science, I dont go to a hospital and film a surgery and say to the doctor hey I aint doin nothing wrong, I am just here to watch.

    Where the officer made his mistake is I he felt there was an immediate threat he should have shifted focus to that threat. He should not have followed the guy then pulled up and said hey I talked with my supervisor and sense you came on my scene carrying a firearm I need to see your id.

    All in all there are mistakes on both ends of this scenario the common logic for most people is to blame the officer. Laws are different in all states I am just stating what would happen if it was me.


  2. #77
    Member Array 38special's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrclen View Post
    Hello 38special. Welcome to the conversation. I take it you have watched the video? Please show where the man with the gun was uncooperative. Your threats to point a firearm at and handcuff a law abiding citizen who obeys your orders shows exactly what the problem is. You Sir, are coming off as a just another bully with a badge.
    I have not watched the video yet, but have seen many involving open carry proponents attempting to instigate trouble. The practice is disgraceful to all gun owners and carriers and does nothing but hurt the cause. I do plan on watching the video tonight.

    However, my contribution to the discussion was not in reference to the video, but to the attitudes, opinions, and uninformed ideas present by some members of this forum. If someone approaches me, especially with a camera and a firearm, while I'm conducting a traffic stop then they will be ordered to leave. My attitude and delivery will not be pleasant. If they refuse then they will be arrested. Moving a few yards away to the sidewalk, loitering about with no legitimate purpose, and further removing my attention from the business at hand does not constitute following my direction to leave. It is interference, plain and simple.

    As I stated in my original post, law abiding individuals are stopped by the police all the time. I do it nightly. It's called investigation and I only need reasonable suspicion to do it. Probable cause is not a very high standard of proof and reasonable suspicion is less. I have drawn my weapon on several law abiding citizens during my career...sometimes good people are in the wrong place at the wrong time and they, or their vehicle, matches the decription of a robbery, assault, or murder suspect. Sometimes facts are not accurately transmitted between 911 callers, dispatch, and patrol. It happens and it's a fact of life.

    I couldn't care less how I come off. If I cared what others thought of me then I would have become a fireman. My goal is not to please others, it's to put criminals in jail and remain safe while doing it. Circumstances which make me feel unsafe or uneasy are up to ME, not others, and it is my decision how far I let that envelope be pushed. Being filmed on a traffic stop within speaking distance by someone with a gun is over that line.

  3. #78
    Member Array jrclen's Avatar
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    No further comment from me is required. You have said it all.
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  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrclen View Post
    No further comment from me is required. You have said it all.
    As promised, I did watch the video last night. I will admit that the subject behaved in a much more respectable manner than many that film these situations. However, with that said, he was still acting inappropriately and was interfering with the traffic stop. There are three main issues I have with his behavior:

    1. Based on his comments at the beginning of the video it is clear that he didn't just stumble upon this traffic stop and decide to film it. His premeditated intent was to open carry for shock value, drive around looking for officers conducting investigations, and then actively introduce himself into the scene. You NEVER approach an officer from behind while he is conducting official business, even if it's just to ask directions, and someone who open carries should know that.

    2. When the officer asked the subject to leave, he made a very low quality effort. He simply went a few yards away, remained behind the officer, and continued running his mouth by stating "I'm just filming to keep you honest." This further showed his intent to instigate and interfere.

    3. It is my guess that this guy has shown a repetitive pattern of this behavior. If a subject repeatedly followed me around at work and showed up on my calls, investigations, and stops then I can assure you that I would pursue harassment charges at minimum. Depending on his conduct I would, more than likely, seek stalking charges.

    I have no problem with people filming me or police in general. The problem arrises when they take the filming to the next level and introduce themselves as active participants in my investigation. That will not be tolerated. If I was the officer in this video and I did not receive cooperation then I would have just arrested the guy for jaywalking since he was, in fact, walking in the middle if the street, I would have confiscated his camera as evidence of the jaywalking charge, and I would have pursued additional charges for interfering with my stop.

  5. #80
    Member Array 02R1's Avatar
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    One more time... This dude was an idiot and is mostly still an idiot today. If you guys know him personally, tell him to stop being an idiot.

  6. #81
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    This guy is an idiot. He was looking for a cop just so he could test his reaction.
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  7. #82
    Member Array jrclen's Avatar
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    There is no question at all, the guy was an idiot. Then the two cops proved that they were idiots too. As if one idiot wasn't enough, we have a video showing three idiots. If the police officers had acted professionally, we would have seen only one idiot. And the video would have been completely ignored.
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  8. #83
    VIP Member Array Ghost1958's Avatar
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    Yes the filmer is an idiot. And he wasnt there by chance. Would I do this? NO. That said if the officer was so concerned about his safety he would have dealt with the matter when it was happening. Not follow the guy, make contact with him again in the cruiser tell him hes free to go, follow him some more, work up a how dare he do that attitude, call in another officer for more intimidation then demand things he has no right to demand.
    If he felt there was a threat to his safety then deal with it while its happening. If there isnt enought threat to act on while its happening then there flat out isnt enough a block down the street and probably 10 min after the fact.
    One poster said he could stop if he believed a person was about to commit a crime. Ok if you see a guy with a crow bar at a doorway Ill buy into that. Just stopping a car because its in a certain area or a person because they are but not doing anything suspicious other than being there??? Since when is a claim to mind reading probably cause???

    It sort of smacks of the normal stop and Id then the next question that comes 90 percent of the time. Where are you coming from and where are you going usually asked as two seperate questions back to back.
    None of your business where I came from or where Im going. If you have grounds to ticket me then do or arrest me then do. Ill cooperate to the fullest. But if you dont then give me my license and skip the third degree on things that are none of your concern officer.
    Filmer is an idiot, Ill id anytime im asked too. I could care less about filming LE. And unless I can help one I wont be messed up in his stop. The cop was an idiot too. Jmo
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  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost1958 View Post
    Yes the filmer is an idiot. And he wasnt there by chance. Would I do this? NO. That said if the officer was so concerned about his safety he would have dealt with the matter when it was happening. Not follow the guy, make contact with him again in the cruiser tell him hes free to go, follow him some more, work up a how dare he do that attitude, call in another officer for more intimidation then demand things he has no right to demand.
    If he felt there was a threat to his safety then deal with it while its happening. If there isnt enought threat to act on while its happening then there flat out isnt enough a block down the street and probably 10 min after the fact.
    One poster said he could stop if he believed a person was about to commit a crime. Ok if you see a guy with a crow bar at a doorway Ill buy into that. Just stopping a car because its in a certain area or a person because they are but not doing anything suspicious other than being there??? Since when is a claim to mind reading probably cause???

    It sort of smacks of the normal stop and Id then the next question that comes 90 percent of the time. Where are you coming from and where are you going usually asked as two seperate questions back to back.
    None of your business where I came from or where Im going. If you have grounds to ticket me then do or arrest me then do. Ill cooperate to the fullest. But if you dont then give me my license and skip the third degree on things that are none of your concern officer.
    Filmer is an idiot, Ill id anytime im asked too. I could care less about filming LE. And unless I can help one I wont be messed up in his stop. The cop was an idiot too. Jmo
    I agree with most of your post. The officer should have detained the individual immediately instead of letting him go and then re-initiating the contact afterward. However, I disagree on two points. If a person introduces themself into my investigation then I most certainly have the right to detain them and demand identification. They don't have to answer my questions, such as where did you come from or where are you going, but if they don't cooperate with me and answer those questions then I will make the contact as unpleasant as possible by arresting/citing when I wouldn't have otherwise. Second, you do not have to be standing at a door with a crowbar in order to meet reasonable suspicion. A scantily dressed woman remaining on the same block for 5-10 minutes or a vehicle circling an area 3 or 4 times is more than enough for a temporary detention. As long as suspicious circumstances are articulable then reasonable suspicion can be met. Popping your nose into a police investigation, especially while openly armed, meets the criteria for detention.

  10. #85
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    Nothing personal to the OP, but I'm not going to give these nut jobs the audience that they are looking for. Stopping and walking up to a police officer while he's doing a traffic stop. What a idiot, loser, drama queen that guy must be. "Just trying to keep everyone accountable".. God I hate folks that go outta their way to make the lives of others more difficult. Another mouth breather with less brains than God gave a billyGoat.
    Last edited by gottabkiddin; January 20th, 2013 at 09:20 AM.
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  11. #86
    VIP Member Array sixgun's Avatar
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    The people in this video are the reason its a hard uphill battle protecting our 2a rights.
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  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixgun View Post
    The people in this video are the reason its a hard uphill battle protecting our 2a rights.
    I totally agree. The guy was a tool trying to provoke the police officers. Did he do something illegal? No I don't believe so, but that doesn't rule out being stupid for initiating the encounter. The officers should have handled it better by not taking the bait; then there wouldn't have been anything worth filming or posting. That said I believe filming the police acts as an excellent deterrent for overly aggressive officers and helps protect the public from their actions. As others have mentioned; if an officer asks for my ID I will provide it as a courtesy and believe it will make any potential situation go more smoothly.
    Also think about the negativity it creates with the officers he involved and their opinions whenever they talk to others. He certainly didn't make any friends with them and most likely created ill will for all of that open carry or concealed carry too.

  13. #88
    Member Array uberrogue's Avatar
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    I didnt see anything wrong with what the leo did. I am not a leo but have a few friends that are. The one in the video simply did not want it to escalate. As soon athe the leo turned his head the camera guy was interfereing. The leo was probably watching him through the window and when he got back in car called it in. I would say the camera guy was acting suspicious coming out of nowhere and walking up to a scene from behind the officer.

    Lying is also a fairly well known tactic. They will say what they need to say to get or trick you into giving them what they want or need. In the end you heard the super stating that the camera guy was correct in the law.

    All in all the camera guy is stupid and you cant fix stupid.

  14. #89
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    Scantily woman on the block example same as the crowbar guy. Same car circling numerous times is reasonable suspicion. Agree with all that.

    What I was referring to with where ive been where im going may be a local thing. I dont know. But on just a tail light out stop on a rural highway traveling thru the where ive been where am I going is likely to get a polite came from back there and going up this way for a while. Now if my not caring to grilled about where ive been or where im going because you pulled me over for a tail light out. Which you have no business asking me anyway in that circumstance works you into a unpleasant froth, well sorry. Cite me for the tail light. If its broke got no problem with that... arrest me?? Go ahead, good luck with that. My record is clean back to being a kid except for a couple of speeding tickets and one dui 22 years ago. Ill be out before the ink is dry on your report for arresting me for not answering those questions.

  15. #90
    VIP Member Array Ghost1958's Avatar
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    Scantily woman on the block example same as the crowbar guy. Same car circling numerous times is reasonable suspicion. Agree with all that.

    What I was referring to with where ive been where im going may be a local thing. I dont know. But on just a tail light out stop on a rural highway traveling thru the where ive been where am I going is likely to get a polite came from back there and going up this way for a while. Now if my not caring to be grilled about where ive been or where im going because you pulled me over for a tail light out. Which you have no business asking me anyway in that circumstance works you into a unpleasant froth, well sorry. Cite me for the tail light. If its broke got no problem with that... arrest me?? Go ahead, good luck with that. My record is clean back to being a kid except for a couple of speeding tickets and one dui 22 years ago. Ill be out before the ink is dry on your report for arresting me for not answering those questions.

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