If everyone CC'ed would the rules of engagement change?

This is a discussion on If everyone CC'ed would the rules of engagement change? within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I was just thinking what if literally everyone who could CC did CC? Would that change how bad guys approach people? Would they not even ...

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Thread: If everyone CC'ed would the rules of engagement change?

  1. #1
    Ex Member Array DetChris's Avatar
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    If everyone CC'ed would the rules of engagement change?

    I was just thinking what if literally everyone who could CC did CC? Would that change how bad guys approach people? Would they not even bother to say "get yo hands up, mofo!" But instead just blow your head off and take your wallet and your piece? The criminal still holds a distinct advantage of surprise. If we're all armed I wonder how they would change their approach.

    In a way in glad there are a larger majority of folks so choose not to CC. Not to be mean but it helps us blend in better, keeping the element of surprise on our side as well.

    Not sure what everyone else thinks of this.

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    Member Array RichardJ's Avatar
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    Wow, I could not disagree more! The BJ’s are generally high and scared and only want money. I remember back in the 70’s there was the mindset that it’s just better to give up your money and not confront the BG’s………………..The “main stream media” will not let a good guy with a CC that stops an attack make the news. If you have a CC, you have a very big responsibility to use it if you wish. Crime rates have dropped where CC’s are widespread however: accidental shootings and suicides tend to increase a bit.
    That being said, what you carry is much less important than how often you carry. I carry a Taurus TCP in the summer and a DB9 (9mm) in the winter here in PA. I carry !00% of the time. Period. I’m NEVER without my gun.
    Statically, 50% of the BG’s out there don’t even have a loaded or functional gun to begin with. Carry your weapon of your choice but do it 100% of the time.!!

  4. #3
    VIP Member Array Ghost1958's Avatar
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    If EVERYONE cced then Id figure everyone would just start OCing like in the old west. Maybe a hidden back up.
    Im assuming you mean everyone knows everyone is able to carry and most are so why would anyone hide it??
    At that point cc would be a horrible disadvantage. Everyone is packin. Youd want to be able to draw as fast as possible. The same guy will be able to draw much faster from oc than cc.

    There would be no element of surprise unless you set an ambush LOL.

    Personally though I cc about all the time if it would get the antis off our backs and let us get back to the constitution and carrying anywhere anytime Id be for everyone OC all the time.
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    Ex Member Array HillbilliesRule's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardJ View Post
    Wow, I could not disagree more! The BJ’s are generally high and scared and only want money. I remember back in the 70’s there was the mindset that it’s just better to give up your money and not confront the BG’s………………..The “main stream media” will not let a good guy with a CC that stops an attack make the news. If you have a CC, you have a very big responsibility to use it if you wish. Crime rates have dropped where CC’s are widespread however: accidental shootings and suicides tend to increase a bit.
    That being said, what you carry is much less important than how often you carry. I carry a Taurus TCP in the summer and a DB9 (9mm) in the winter here in PA. I carry !00% of the time. Period. I’m NEVER without my gun.
    Statically, 50% of the BG’s out there don’t even have a loaded or functional gun to begin with. Carry your weapon of your choice but do it 100% of the time.!!
    Every study I have seen that broke down suicides by method show an increase in firearm suicides but no appreciable increase in total suicides. Canada has a slightly higher suicide rate but has more from strangulation/asphyxiation than the US which is led by handguns. To me it makes no difference HOW a person punches their own ticket only WHY they did so.

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    VIP Member Array Crowman's Avatar
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    Criminals are the least predictable....... Personally, I feel that is open/concealed carry was legal nationwide it would cut down on many crimes..... However it will not stop all crime......

    Presently there are criminals that do what you fear might happen..... Take your valuables and then kill you.....
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    Senior Member Array TxTchRR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crowman View Post
    Criminals are the least predictable....... Personally, I feel that is open/concealed carry was legal nationwide it would cut down on many crimes..... However it will not stop all crime......

    Presently there are criminals that do what you fear might happen..... Take your valuables and then kill you.....
    Hell, there are criminals that do that in reverse. Fortunately both are the minority of criminals.

    OP, if a person really wants to kill you regardless of whether it's to steal or just to do it, there's really not much you can do even if CCing. Action will always beat reaction, and violence of action will win the day 99% of the time. It is fortunate for all of us that a very small percentage of criminals are willing to kill immediately and without reason. As much as we would like to dehumanize all BGs, there are very, very few who are sociopathic enough to kill without any remorse or second thought.

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    VIP Member Array Ghost1958's Avatar
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    I personally dont think its any spark of remorse that stops BGS from just killing their victim first. There is a huge difference in facing a 1st degree murder rap than an armed robbery rap if caught. One you likely will get out in a few years over. The other you may spend most of your life in prison or in some states get the death penalty for outright murdering someone.

    If not for that difference Im guessing youd have a lot more pop you in the head without saying anything and taking your stuff.
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    VIP Member Array Secret Spuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardJ View Post
    Wow, I could not disagree more! The BJ’s are generally high and scared and only want money. I remember back in the 70’s there was the mindset that it’s just better to give up your money and not confront the BG’s………………..The “main stream media” will not let a good guy with a CC that stops an attack make the news. If you have a CC, you have a very big responsibility to use it if you wish. Crime rates have dropped where CC’s are widespread however: accidental shootings and suicides tend to increase a bit.
    That being said, what you carry is much less important than how often you carry. I carry a Taurus TCP in the summer and a DB9 (9mm) in the winter here in PA. I carry !00% of the time. Period. I’m NEVER without my gun.
    Statically, 50% of the BG’s out there don’t even have a loaded or functional gun to begin with. Carry your weapon of your choice but do it 100% of the time.!!
    BJ's? ,lol

  10. #9
    VIP Member Array Secret Spuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DetChris View Post
    I was just thinking what if literally everyone who could CC did CC? Would that change how bad guys approach people? Would they not even bother to say "get yo hands up, mofo!" But instead just blow your head off and take your wallet and your piece? The criminal still holds a distinct advantage of surprise. If we're all armed I wonder how they would change their approach.

    In a way in glad there are a larger majority of folks so choose not to CC. Not to be mean but it helps us blend in better, keeping the element of surprise on our side as well.

    Not sure what everyone else thinks of this.
    Most criminals dont use guns. Most want nothing to do with guns. Those who do use guns are for the most part prepared to use them. I agree that if an armed robber for example knows your armed he may open the show by shooting you. Or he may move on to someone a bit easier to cow. The goal is to get the money, and dont get caught.

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DetChris View Post
    I was just thinking what if literally everyone who could CC did CC?
    If it were ever the case, I'd bet that ...

    A percentage of violent criminals would realize they're almost sure to meet deadly armed resistance to any violence the present, and they'd take pains to counter that degree of resistance. How are you going to keep this from happening, amongst the most-violent? It would happen, sure as sunshine, with some of them. If sure to meet deadly resistance, anything that can counter the resistance (ie, taking out the "gunners" at the outset) would be a good move, raising the odds for success.

    A percentage of violent criminals would realize the game was up, and they'd head for greener pastures, to find some other avenue of resistance with a better mix of rewards/penalties/risks.

    A good percentage would be permanently erased from this world, as a heavily-armed, continuously-armed citizenry expressed its flat refusal to be violated, increasing its resolve as more folks resolved to not be victimized. I'd bet this would also strongly change the courts, DA's, attorneys, changing their perspective on "castle" realities, that all citizens have every right to stand their round against any and all unprovoked violence against them at all times, wherever they are.

    And some small percentage of so-called upstanding citizens would find it within themselves to turn. (After all, criminals come from somewhere; they come from us, who've turned.)

    What would those percentages be? Who's to say?

    IMO, it would be far better, if all upstanding people had every capacity to effectively defend themselves against predation. With this mix, the likelihood of the criminally violent surviving very long in the game would be dramatically reduced. Hard to argue that's not a good thing.
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    I believe this should be under the "Concealed Carry" thread. If everyone who could carry--by any manner--did, the question would remain the same.

    However, there are those BGs who have no reservations about killing and those who, althought living the life of a criminal, are not. Unfortunately, like the VC, you can't tell one from another. If the prey no longer viewed as "easy," the game would have to change.
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    I have no idea what this has to do with open carry, but I doubt it would have any affect on how the BG's operated.
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    Well, I can only go by my war time experience involving a lot of guys with guns. I saw about the same amount of people killed by friendly fire than by the enemy. I personally prefer not to be around others with guns unless they are highly trained. I shudder to think what it would be like if 20 people pulled at guns at a mass shooting with lots of confusion as to who the bad guy was. I suspect a lot of innocent people would get killed. I use my gun to save my life and not be a policeman. If I am attacked I will respond. If you are attacked I will retreat and report. I do not know you and for all I know you are the bad guy even if it does not look like it at the time.
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    Distinguished Member Array Glock2201's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old_Dog View Post
    Well, I can only go by my war time experience involving a lot of guys with guns. I saw about the same amount of people killed by friendly fire than by the enemy. I personally prefer not to be around others with guns unless they are highly trained. I shudder to think what it would be like if 20 people pulled at guns at a mass shooting with lots of confusion as to who the bad guy was. I suspect a lot of innocent people would get killed. I use my gun to save my life and not be a policeman. If I am attacked I will respond. If you are attacked I will retreat and report. I do not know you and for all I know you are the bad guy even if it does not look like it at the time.
    If I am reading this correctly if you saw someone else attacked you would let them continue to get attacked or killed while you retreated and reported about it.

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    Distinguished Member Array bigmacque's Avatar
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    The question you're really asking is, is there a point where an armed society that has become a polite society descends to a human society and the bullets just start to fly?

    OldVet's point, while it may befuddle the issue a bit, is a valid potential scenario that even cops are afraid of -- the riot scene, where you have no idea who is bad and who is good but you have a lot of guns being pulled out, aimed and fired.

    Is there a tipping point where everyone has guns so everyone just resorts to them, because the bad guys that persist in breaking bad have retreated to the point where they shoot first and ask questions later, and everyone else has little choice but to respond in kind.
    I'm in favor of gun control -- I think every citizen should have control of a gun.
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