OC Profiling & assumptions

OC Profiling & assumptions

This is a discussion on OC Profiling & assumptions within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Since I began OC several weeks ago, I've noticed something which has little to do with the gun on my hip. When I am working ...

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Thread: OC Profiling & assumptions

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array RightsEroding's Avatar
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    OC Profiling & assumptions

    Since I began OC several weeks ago, I've noticed something which has little to do with the gun on my hip.

    When I am working I dress well, slacks, dress shoes and polo shirt.

    I have noticed people do look if they notice the gun at all; and then simply move on with their business w/o any apprehension whatsoever.
    A few of my friends have said "They probably think you're a cop" ...I would say my friends are probably right.

    I feel certain if I wore a torn tee shirt, ratty looking boots or just looked out of place; the responses would be different.
    It is NOT a experiment I intend on proving.

    It may not be fair or right, but profiling happens.

    When I go back and look at the "you tubers" who post their OC encounters, I notice most of them are NOT dressed very nice.

    Just a observation of mine and perhaps some food for thought.
    oldman45 likes this.
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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    I have noticed that it is more attitude and ones actions that makes folks feak out more than the attire. If I walk abrubtly into a store looking ticked off at the world, mumbling to myself, and just plain acting rude..that will cause folks to freak out more than if I walked into a store, held the door open for the lady behind me, said excuse me for bumping into someone, and picked up a childs pacifier that fell for a mom. I could be wearing the exact same clothes and looking scruffy.

    I have told the tale of when I met a mom hiking with her kids. She obviously ws weary when she saw the gun. I was polite, talked to the kids when they asked me if they could pet my dog, looked the mom in the eyes and smiled to let her know it is OK.

    Of course appearance is the first thing people notice. But attitude and demeanor is what will most likely put them at ease or make them freak out.
    NONAME762 likes this.
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

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    Distinguished Member Array oldman45's Avatar
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    I always dress nicely when carrying or not carrying. My hair is always cut and combed. If I OC, I never have experienced any problems over the years.

    I have a friend that is a professionally employed with a college degree. He is a closet liberal posing as a conservative. He was educated in liberal schools. His hair is long and not well combed. It looks like he does not comb it. His clothes are deplorable He wears t-shirts that a a size too small and his pants are always too long and sagging. The guy has a concealed permit but loves to carry openly. His gun hangs like that of a western gun fighter and he always carries a revolver with decorative grips. He also gets stopped often by store employees. He has had police called on him twice and they always say if he is not doing anything illegal, it is not a police matter.

    How people perceive you will decide how they react to the presence of a firearm.
    A 9mm might expand but a .45acp never shrinks.

    "The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are now outnumbered by those who vote for a living."

  4. #4
    Member Array NorthernVandal's Avatar
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    Of course people notice, around here it's a good conversation starter. I was at a business open house and noticed a guy with a G26 on his hip, I started with a guess of what model it was and we ended up talking for a while. Nice guy, new carrier, waiting on his CCW permit and wanted to carry. I thanked him for carrying and we chatted about his experiences. Nothing bad, all good, of course around here it is not uncommon, I see guys every day OC. If I am not dressed for CC, OC is not an issue for a quick trip downtown or wherever. In the summer my P938 fits anywhere, but if I feel like bringing big brother 229 along, I just OC. Never had an issue. It is how you carry yourself more than anything I believe. Dress does make you look more official.
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  5. #5
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthernVandal View Post
    Of course people notice, around here it's a good conversation starter.
    People notice my wife when we go out to eat. A nice looking lady in a skirt and OC'ing is just plain hot And no one has ever asked her to leave!
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

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    Distinguished Member Array oldman45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    People notice my wife when we go out to eat. A nice looking lady in a skirt and OC'ing is just plain hot And no one has ever asked her to leave!
    If there is no pictures, it did not happen.
    A 9mm might expand but a .45acp never shrinks.

    "The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are now outnumbered by those who vote for a living."

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    VIP Member Array LimaCharlie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    I have noticed that it is more attitude and ones actions that makes folks feak out more than the attire. If I walk abrubtly into a store looking ticked off at the world, mumbling to myself, and just plain acting rude..that will cause folks to freak out more than if I walked into a store, held the door open for the lady behind me, said excuse me for bumping into someone, and picked up a childs pacifier that fell for a mom. I could be wearing the exact same clothes and looking scruffy.

    I have told the tale of when I met a mom hiking with her kids. She obviously ws weary when she saw the gun. I was polite, talked to the kids when they asked me if they could pet my dog, looked the mom in the eyes and smiled to let her know it is OK.

    Of course appearance is the first thing people notice. But attitude and demeanor is what will most likely put them at ease or make them freak out.

    That profiling gets many people in deep trouble. I dated a woman who worked in the prison system. She always said the mean ugly tough looking guy was more likely in prison for check kiting or multiple drunk-driving incidents. The good looking well-groomed friendly guy was more likely the rapist, serial killer, or the guy who cut up grandma and stored her in a trunk.
    Secret Spuk and maxwell97 like this.
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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Sorry, I don't post pics of my family on the internet. I actually get suspicious of most pics now any with phootoshop. A guy on another gun forum posted a pic of his gun collection. I thought I had seen it before and the pic didn't look right. I searched and he photoshopped himself into another person pic of a gun collection.

    But, if this makes you happy, this is her:
    tomb_raider_3.jpg
    Badey and carracer like this.
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

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    VIP Member Array Badey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Sorry, I don't post pics of my family on the internet. I actually get suspicious of most pics now any with phootoshop. A guy on another gun forum posted a pic of his gun collection. I thought I had seen it before and the pic didn't look right. I searched and he photoshopped himself into another person pic of a gun collection.

    But, if this makes you happy, this is her:
    tomb_raider_3.jpg
    The truth is finally out! Ladies and gentlemen, Suntzu is Brad Pitt.
    Ghost1958, carracer, mg27 and 1 others like this.
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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RightsEroding View Post
    Since I began OC several weeks ago, I've noticed something which has little to do with the gun on my hip.

    When I am working I dress well, slacks, dress shoes and polo shirt.

    I have noticed people do look if they notice the gun at all; and then simply move on with their business w/o any apprehension whatsoever.
    A few of my friends have said "They probably think you're a cop" ...I would say my friends are probably right.

    I feel certain if I wore a torn tee shirt, ratty looking boots or just looked out of place; the responses would be different.
    It is NOT a experiment I intend on proving.

    It may not be fair or right, but profiling happens.

    When I go back and look at the "you tubers" who post their OC encounters, I notice most of them are NOT dressed very nice.

    Just a observation of mine and perhaps some food for thought.
    This has been my take on OC for a long time. IMO it is about public perception. Like you said, you do not look out of place. Profiling happens in all sorts of personal and business dealing it IMO is human nature to a big degree. It is always good to see folks carrying responsible whether it be OC or CC...
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    I feel it's one primary thing, with most folks: the totality of circumstances, indicators. People judge based on every input they can register ... demeanor, eyes/look, speech, dress, visible threats of any sort (ie, arms, clearly strung-out on drugs), anything apparently out of place that doesn't register "well."

    Largely, it is heavily influenced by perceptions in the community, to what degree they've swallowed the pap they've been brainwashed with, to what degree they have knee-jerk fears of weaponry irrespective of any other corroborating factors or the simple fact that the arms/carry statutes exist. But, IMO, it's largely influenced by those circumstances, indicators. Root around the back alleys at 2am, and one might get looks no matter how one is dressed; but dress well and have a similar demeanor at 2pm while minding one's own business (errands, whatever), it's hard for most folks to get cranked about an increasingly common occurrence.

    Myself, I carry both concealed and openly. Have seen a variety of responses, mostly fairly benign, but some briefly wide-eyed. Few moved quickly away. Several approached and commented or asked questions. Most ignore it, or don't see it at all. But then, I dress business casual or less, much of the time, though nothing "ratty" looking. I mind my own business and don't have an outwardly distressing demeanor. Totality of circumstances and indicators, I think, works to my advantage in my case.
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  12. #12
    Distinguished Member Array SCXDm9's Avatar
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    What is the difference between profiling and situational awareness?

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    While there's no need to wear a tux while OC'ing, "respectable" dress goes a long way. That and the fact your firearm is holstered instead of being threatenly waved around probably has a calming effect. The only thing about OC'ers that draws my attention is my curiosity about what they're carrying, not why.
    fredg53 likes this.
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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCXDm9 View Post
    What is the difference between profiling and situational awareness?
    Generalizations.


    Here's the way I think of it:

    • "Profiling" constitutes basing judgments and responses upon an individual based on one's generalized experiences, understandings and preconceptions/biases regarding "such people."

    • Situational awareness means using one's judgment on the moment, given the circumstances and the individual in question at the time, without all the baggage.


    Of course, there are times/places justifying enhanced scrutiny (via profiling techniques / ie at international travel check-points), but unless there are corroborating factors justifying any further actions then it gets hard to base all actions on the biases/preconceptions.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  15. #15
    Distinguished Member Array SCXDm9's Avatar
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    I guess I see them as one in the same, I think it's impossible to root out ones generalized experiences from either. I think we tend to use "Profiling" for assumptions we don't like and "Situational awareness" for assumptions we do like. I don't have a problem with either in fact a blend of the two, IMO is called day to day life.

    The grimy guy laying on the park bench, homeless maybe. Someone I want to stay away from, yes. Profiling or SA... results are the same, I'll sit some place else.


    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Generalizations.


    Here's the way I think of it:

    • "Profiling" constitutes basing judgments and responses upon an individual based on one's generalized experiences, understandings and preconceptions/biases regarding "such people."

    • Situational awareness means using one's judgment on the moment, given the circumstances and the individual in question at the time, without all the baggage.


    Of course, there are times/places justifying enhanced scrutiny (via profiling techniques / ie at international travel check-points), but unless there are corroborating factors justifying any further actions then it gets hard to base all actions on the biases/preconceptions.

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