Open carry thoughts about interactions with others....

Open carry thoughts about interactions with others....

This is a discussion on Open carry thoughts about interactions with others.... within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; If you open carry, and a LEO respectfully asks you a few questions (RESPECTFULLY), i see no reason in wrong doing. He respectfully talks to ...

Page 1 of 9 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 127
Like Tree188Likes

Thread: Open carry thoughts about interactions with others....

  1. #1
    New Member Array Dman23's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Duluth, MN
    Posts
    10

    Open carry thoughts about interactions with others....

    If you open carry, and a LEO respectfully asks you a few questions (RESPECTFULLY), i see no reason in wrong doing. He respectfully talks to you, you respectfully talk with them, maybe a permit and ID is shown, and you both go about your way. Now if a LEO comes up and is a jerk, or you are a jerk back, then OC may just become something you should reconsider. Period. Its your right to do it, but its their job to make sure you are legit. Its no different then them going up to another suspicous person and asking a few questions to see if they are legit for their actions and locations.

    Besides the one really bad LEO egg now and then in the world, im sure most would ask responsible questions and the individual could also respond with legitimate answers and paperwork.

    If you are carrying a fully loaded gun in full view, im sorry in this day in age you could get questioned. If you respond with good intent and are willing to show proof that you are permitted to do so, everyone can go back on there way.

    I conseal most of the time, because i enjoy my right to saftey and unless i am in the woods or fishing or what not, consealing just keeps me as well as those around me feeling more comfortable.

    But if you open carry, you have to realize you walking around with bright flashing lights that say "i have a gun and im not in a police uniform". Not all people know and understand who can and cant be carrying a gun around where ever they want.

    Whatever method you chose, just remember depending on your location, you may be confronted. Your not carrying around knitting supplies here. Its what you do when you are confronted that sets the tone on how everyone else see's OC going forward.

    That is why i conseal mostly. Openly when i am in situations where it doesnt stand out and feels more normal. For me that is in the woods, on my land, out fishing. Wherever i feel guns are totally accepted. And if i had a LEO interaction, would probably treat him with more respect then anyone would get. After the conyvorsation i would hope he went away thinking at least that i am a good guy that wants the extra protection, and my attitude and paperwork back up my right to do so.

    Remember, its their JOB to look into things they are suspicious about. So instead make that an opportunity to feel good about you doing it. OC you cNt expect to just go about your day as if you wernt. Just the way life works these days....
    Last edited by Rock and Glock; September 11th, 2014 at 09:06 PM.


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    NC Foothills
    Posts
    2,575
    So MN requires a permit to open carry?
    North Carolina Concealed Handgun Permit Instructor
    NRA Personal Protection and Basic Pistol Instructor

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array Ghost1958's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    6,031
    First you shouldnt need any paperwork but in some states you do. In my state and others there is no permit or paper work required to own or OC a firearm. So LE has no reason to be stopping anyone OCing unless the have PROBABLE CAUSE to believe a crime is being committed. Theres nothing for them to be checking for without PC in absence of a permit being being needed to OC a firearm.
    " It is sad governments are chief'ed by the double tongues." quote Ten Bears Movie Outlaw Josie Wales

  4. #4
    Distinguished Member
    Array Old_Dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,409
    I would not open carry in an urban area just to avoid the hassle. I know a lot of people who get freaked out by guns and do not even want to spend my day arguing with people. Plus I do not want to advertise the fact that I have a gun on me. It takes away the element of surprise and gives the advantage to the bad guy. Guns are juicy targets for criminals and no sense in dangling one in front of them. Out in the woods or rural areas it is not much of a problem but not in a urban area.
    The worst thing about growing old is that other men no longer see you as dangerous.

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array Phaedrus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,371
    No one would bat an eye at an OC'er in rural areas of SD. Walking around downtown Sioux Falls with an AK will probably draw stares at a minimum!
    HAGJewels likes this.
    "When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

    “You can tell whether a man is clever by his answers. You can tell whether a man is wise by his questions.” - Naguib Mahfouz

  6. #6
    VIP Member
    Array PEF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    3,793
    Here we go again. Whether you OC or CC the same thing can happen. Here's what I do:

    1) Check your state laws. If you carry and are required by statute to produce a permit on demand, end of story.

    2) If you are not required to produce a permit, check your state case law. Do your state courts erroneously* hold that carrying lawfully is reasonable articulable suspicion? If so, the it's up to you if you want to deal with what the law is or deal with *what the law should be. That latter may cost you time and money and you may not prevail.

    3) If your state courts are silent on this issue or have held that carrying lawfully is not reasonable articulable suspicion, then it is up to you to either surrender your rights under the constitution or hold firm. I don't care if you surrender your rights for convenience of if you hold firm. That's your choice. And I don't care if it's open carry or free speech. It's your choice. In my case, I'll be respectful but I will not acquiesce to an unlawful stop and search. But I will be completely respectful and follow orders (without consent), but I will not comply with requests if I am doing nothing wrong (I don't OC, but this can happen if you CC and are "made.")

    OP, you can search my posts, I have a 3 x 5 card version of RAS, PC, etc. Can't find it now. But you need to know about RAS, PC, etc.

    -PEF
    -PEF, a Framer with a Steelie...
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    1. All guns are always loaded.
    2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.
    3. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.
    4. Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.

  7. #7
    VIP Member
    Array PEF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    3,793
    Quote Originally Posted by Dman23 View Post
    ...
    Remember, its their JOB to look into things they are suspicious about. So instead make that an opportunity to feel good about you doing it. OC you cNt expect to just go about your day as if you wernt. Just the way life works these days....

    That's the rub. If you are licensed to do a lawful act, why is it suspicious when you are acting lawfully? Can police stop you when you are driving and you have not broken any laws to make sure you are licensed? No. Can police walk into your office if you are a doctor to make sure you are licensed in the state? No.

    So see my above post. To me, if you are OCing, that is not suspicious. I think you are a law abiding citizens that has a weapons carry license.

    RAS, PC, Statutory Scheme, State Case Law. Any advice should be provided in the context of this framework.
    -PEF, a Framer with a Steelie...
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    1. All guns are always loaded.
    2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.
    3. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.
    4. Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.

  8. #8
    VIP Member
    Array archer51's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    21,592
    Quote Originally Posted by Old_Dog View Post
    I would not open carry in an urban area just to avoid the hassle. I know a lot of people who get freaked out by guns and do not even want to spend my day arguing with people.

    I OC daily and have never had an argument with anyone over it. One, n o one says anything about it and two, I wouldn't waste my breath aruging with them.

    Plus I do not want to advertise the fact that I have a gun on me. It takes away the element of surprise and gives the advantage to the bad guy. Guns are juicy targets for criminals and no sense in dangling one in front of them.

    While we hear this argument all the time, other than a rare instance there is no proof it is true.

    Out in the woods or rural areas it is not much of a problem but not in a urban area.
    Oh, and I DO live in a urban setting. I'm in Richmond, the capital of Virginia.
    Freedom doesn't come free. It is bought and paid for by the lives and blood of our men and women in uniform.

    USAF Retired
    NRA Life Member

  9. #9
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    TX/NH
    Posts
    5,883
    Quote Originally Posted by Dman23 View Post
    If you open carry, and a LEO respectfully asks you a few questions (RESPECTFULLY), i see no reason in wrong doing. He respectfully talks to you, you respectfully talk with them, maybe a permit and ID is shown, and you both go about your way. Now if a LEO comes up and is a *****, or you are a ***** back, then OC may just become something you should reconsider. Period. Its your right to do it, but its their job to make sure you are legit. Its no different then them going up to another suspicous person and asking a few questions to see if they are legit for their actions and locations.
    Oh boy. Here we go again. In BOLD and for 1 millionth time- WHAT AM I DOING THAT IS SUSCPICIOUS!!!!!!! I am walking with a firearm in a legal fashion. No different than someone doing any other legal activity. If my actions would not warrant investigation by LE without a firearm, they do not warrant any investigation by LE with a firearm.

    But if you open carry, you have to realize you walking around with bright flashing lights that say "i have a gun and im not in a police uniform". Not all people know and understand who can and cant be carrying a gun around where ever they want.
    Your thread is about LE stopping you. I would assume that LE does know that it is legal.

    And you do realize that by stopping me they are taking away my personal time. The time that it takes to stop me for doing something legal is time I will never have back.

    Remember, its their JOB to look into things they are suspicious about. So instead make that an opportunity to feel good about you doing it. OC you cNt expect to just go about your day as if you wernt. Just the way life works these days....
    It is their job to look into susicious things. Carrying a firearm legaly is not suspicious by itself. Why do I need to make myself or anyone else feel good?

    If it were not for apologists like you justifying or rationalizing OC'ers being stopped, maybe it just would not happen anymore. If you are on a gun forum spewing this I can only assume that you say the same thing to other folks which does not help OC'ers who just want to carry in a manner of their choosing

    Is that so hard to grasp. Respectfully, you rpost is a bunch of rehashed statements which are frankly annoying. You base the legality and justification for a LE to stop one based on suspicion. There is nothing suspicious about what one is doing.

    I have a better idea, since almost no BG goes around OC'ing, why don't we have LE stop folks randomly and check for concealed weapons. They have a much better chance of finding a BG that way.

    Your whole premise is so wrong.

    BTW: What do you do in NH or VT or other states where you do not need a permit. What do you want to happen, have the officer run your name to see if there are warrants out for the person?
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

  10. #10
    VIP Member
    Array Stoveman's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Cuba on the Chesapeake
    Posts
    2,919

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    TX/NH
    Posts
    5,883
    Quote Originally Posted by Old_Dog View Post
    I would not open carry in an urban area just to avoid the hassle. I know a lot of people who get freaked out by guns and do not even want to spend my day arguing with people. Plus I do not want to advertise the fact that I have a gun on me. It takes away the element of surprise and gives the advantage to the bad guy. Guns are juicy targets for criminals and no sense in dangling one in front of them. Out in the woods or rural areas it is not much of a problem but not in a urban area.
    Evidence please. Except the handful of situations explain how this has or wil be a problem? More hyperbole to convince folks that BG's target OC'ers for guns. Again, an old an unsubstantiated statement not based on fact.
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

  12. #12
    Distinguished Member Array oldman45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    1,414
    Come on down to Louisiana for a visit. We will all walk around the cities (other than New Orleans) while carrying openly all day long. You will notice that nobody pays you any attention. Nobody tried to grab your gun. The police are not called. Stores do not forbid you to enter.

    Those in areas where OC has became the law rather than being legal since time began may not be the same but when I am not working, I carry just like I do when working. Some times concealed, often times open. I am in my late 60s and have carried like this since I was 18 yrs old. Not once have I had a problem.

    People look for problems when something is new or strange to them. Do not look for issues and none will be had. Do not be critical of what you have not tried.

    LEO will not be out looking for open carriers. Yet do not dress like Wild Bill Hicock and wear your six shooter strapped to your leg to draw attention to yourself. Do not wear your ball cap over your long hair with it turned sideways. DO not wear your pants sagging so bad that you have rear cleavage. Try shaving at least once aweek.
    carracer and elmacgyver0 like this.
    A 9mm might expand but a .45acp never shrinks.

    "The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are now outnumbered by those who vote for a living."

  13. #13
    JD
    JD is online now
    Administrator
    Array JD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Central Iowa
    Posts
    19,238
    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Evidence please. Except the handful of situations explain how this has or wil be a problem? More hyperbole to convince folks that BG's target OC'ers for guns. Again, an old an unsubstantiated statement not based on fact.
    I would like to know what the magic number is for this to be a concern. Not long ago we had fewer examples to reference, while minuscule, the number of these occurances IS increasing.

    Sent via Tapatalk 2, and still using real words.

  14. #14
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    TX/NH
    Posts
    5,883
    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    I would like to know what the magic number is for this to be a concern. Not long ago we had fewer examples to reference, while minuscule, the number of these occurances IS increasing.

    Sent via Tapatalk 2, and still using real words.
    73 per year not involving uniformed officials LOL......It is not a concern until it becomes a problem. There is not a magic number for when something becomes a problem. I do not think a handful times over a period of years constitutes a "problem" or concern. BUt, if you want to get to a certain number how about when the number of ND's by CC'ers and/or gun owners and OC'ers guns being taken away from them are equal. Or when the number of kids that die at the hands of irresponisble gun owners equals the number of times guns are taken from OC'ers. Or the number of times people get arrested for CC'ing or bringing in guns where they are not allowed by law equals the number of times that guns are taken from OC'ers.

    In the scheme of things and gun ownership, does anyone really see that having a gun taken from you while OC'ing is a current problem? If it is I would say it is at the bottom.
    pittypat21 and Ghost1958 like this.
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array pittypat21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,492
    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    I would like to know what the magic number is for this to be a concern. Not long ago we had fewer examples to reference, while minuscule, the number of these occurances IS increasing.

    Sent via Tapatalk 2, and still using real words.
    The number is increasing because time is going on. They will always happen, but IMO it doesn't happen often enough to warrant NOT OCing over.

    As I mentioned in another thread about this, you are likely to become a target when you CC. How many stories do we hear practically everday about a CCer defending themselves or others? We have more stories of this then OCers having to defend themselves from an attack.

    At those rates, we shouldn't CC, either, since we're likely to be attacked or victimized at some point.

    It's a silly argument. We carry firearms in the event that we are targeted. But we shouldn't OC, because we might be targeted.
    tcox4freedom likes this.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet."
    -General James Mattis, USMC

Page 1 of 9 12345 ... LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

cop chat
,
multiple officers responding vancouver washington 7-19-2014
,
open carry respectfully
,

sioux falls open carry walk

Click on a term to search for related topics.

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!

» DefensiveCarry Sponsors