TN CCW Class Instructor - OC Bad

This is a discussion on TN CCW Class Instructor - OC Bad within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; As a mothers/fathers day gift to my parents I paid for them to go through the Tennessee CCW class which they did last Saturday. The ...

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Thread: TN CCW Class Instructor - OC Bad

  1. #1
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    TN CCW Class Instructor - OC Bad

    As a mothers/fathers day gift to my parents I paid for them to go through the Tennessee CCW class which they did last Saturday. The Stove family will be traveling to TN to visit them for the holiday and they know that I prefer to OC.

    Got a call last night because they wanted to let me know that their instructor spent a good deal of time telling the class what a bad idea it was. All the usuals. "You will be the first one targeted by a BG, you will risk a bigger chance of having your gun stolen, bad interaction with LEOs" etc...

    Well we had a long conversation about OC and I was able to explain why I prefer it, my many positive experiences while OCing and other reasons for OCing. Some was based on my own experience, but others on information that I have learned here and I want to thank you guys for that.

    It bothers me that in my class and in this completely different class, different state, different program, that the anti OC stance is being advanced by these instructors.

    Do they all get together and/or send memos to each other, or is this the general mindset of CCW class instructors?
    blitzburgh and FTG-05 like this.

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    Member Array skatalite's Avatar
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    You know how these things go in classes of any kind:

    <student raises hand>
    "Sir? Yeah, I'm curious what you think about X subject?"
    "Well, son, that's a loaded question but I'll tell you what I personally believe..."
    <instructor goes on about his beliefs on X subject>
    "Thanks, sir!"
    <class ends, students go home, one of them calls his friend who engages in X subject to impart all the new knowledge he has on the subject matter...>
    "Yeah, the instructor said only dummies do X subject!"
    <... but fails to mention it was the instructor's opinion because he was asked for it>

    So, it might not be the instructor is advancing any official stance, and it might be that a student took his opinion as gospel.

    On the other hand, some instructors can be dummies themselves, so it is what it is I reckon.

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    Instructors should present facts, not myths and unsubstantiated opinions, such as this is what the laws says, not what you think it means.
    Retired USAF E-8. Avatar is OldVet from days long gone. Oh, to be young again.
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    You paid good money for the instructor's opinion.
    "Who are the ones that we kept in charge? Killers, thieves, and lawyers"

    Tom Waits, God's Away on Business

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    Distinguished Member Array Once's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    You paid good money for the instructor's opinion.
    Thats an awesome statement.
    +1

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    Stove: Im sure you are a careful person. But do try and be extra careful in TN while open carrying.

    Its not popular here. We ARE urged not to open carry here in CCP classes, and in other nationally known training available here.

    I understand that open carry might be popular elsewhere, but its not here. Im not trying to dissuade you from open carrying, here, in TN. I just want you to know, (before you get here), that probably the vast majority of cops here have never seen anyone open carrying. Nor has the public.

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    VIP Member Array Thunder71's Avatar
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    Well, if they attended a "CCW" class why are you surprised?

    In Minnesota for example, you can get a "permit to carry" (you can then carry open or concealed)... I steer people away from instructors who offer 'Concealed Carry' or 'Conceal and Carry' classes because they obviously have a strong stance on the subject.

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    Thanks for the heads up SR. I was just in TN a few days ago on a motorcycle trip and didn't have any problems.

    Was first in Kentucky and also no problems, but that is what I expected there.

    Interesting how attitudes change with the state lines....

    Perhaps TN needs more people OCing to get the public and LEO used to it.

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    VIP Member Array StormRhydr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoveman View Post
    Thanks for the heads up SR. I was just in TN a few days ago on a motorcycle trip and didn't have any problems.


    Perhaps TN needs more people OCing to get the public and LEO used to it.
    You know, I heard all the time, on Huffington post, people saying stuff like "I dont want to be around guns.", or "I dont want someone carrying a gun on my bus/train/etc."

    The thing is, they are around guns all the time. They just dont know it. Its called "concealed carry" for a reason. And I had the same thoughts as you; If more carried openly, these people would come to feel MORE SECURE around good guys with guns.

    As it is now, they think only of bad guys with guns, or LE with guns. And the LE with guns are not there when its crunch time. So all they picture is guns being used for ill purposes.

  11. #10
    JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder71 View Post
    Well, if they attended a "CCW" class why are you surprised?

    In Minnesota for example, you can get a "permit to carry" (you can then carry open or concealed)... I steer people away from instructors who offer 'Concealed Carry' or 'Conceal and Carry' classes because they obviously have a strong stance on the subject.
    I think that is more of an argument on semantics.

    A majority of people are looking to carry concealed, it's marketing. Do I call my classes "CCW?" No, but it is pretty much the "norm"

    When I talk about OC, I do mention that those things "can" happen, because sometimes they do happen.

    As an instructor, when asked we need to enable our students to make an informed decision, not blow flowers and sun-shine up their rears regarding Open Carry.

    Do I talk about the benefits of it? Sure.

    Also, as the OP was not IN the class we are still getting third-hand information. It's amazing how things can be taken out of context and then regurgitated.

    Your Mileage May Vary.

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    If the instructor needs to to discuss OC in his CC class, he should at least present the pros and cons rather than just saying how bad it is. There are legitimate reasons why people OC, and the class should hear those reasons (if the topic needs to be discussed at all) and make up their own minds as to what they want to do with it.
    JD, blitzburgh, NONAME762 and 1 others like this.
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    Senior Member Array Lotus222's Avatar
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    I'm sure this instructor truly believes what he is telling the class and feels that he is doing them a big favor by offering his expert opinions. That is all they are, though. Opinions. I've never had a formal educator that wasn't biased in various opinions. That's just the way the world works. Also, he was teaching a concealed carry class, not a weapons carry class? That probably is another factor.

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    Do they all get together and/or send memos to each other, or is this the general mindset of CCW class instructors?
    Highly doubt it. It's just a case of one person, who happens to be a CCW instructor, pushing his views on his audience (students).
    "Rebellion against tyrants is obedience to God." - Benjamin Franklin

    "Experience: that most brutal of teachers. But you learn, my God do you learn." - C.S. Lewis

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    JD, since you quoted me I assume you're referring to me.... I took nothing out of context, I said 'IF' they took a CCW class, some instructors advertise as such. After that, I was only sharing my opinion on such instructors, as they do exist. Who do you think coins these phrases, certainly not the people taking the classes, they have to learn it somewhere... they don't just wake up one day and say 'I think I'm going to take a concealed carry class today'. Chances are they read one of the flyers 'We offer concealed carry classes!'.

    I have a legitimate issue with this, believe it or not.

    In states where there is no designation between open and concealed (per the law) when an instructor (or instructors) offer this marketing crap (concealed carry class) the general public thinks you have to conceal, it doesn't do anyone any good to portray this image even further. Regardless of your own personal choice to carry concealed or open, you should just present the facts and let people make up their own minds on what is best for them.

    Furthermore, how many people go to the range and practice drawing from their XXXL cover garment and IWB holster? I'd be willing to bet that a large majority use the holster their gun came with (belt holster) or similar since it can be difficult to re-holster an IWB design.

    I don't want to get into an Open vs Concealed debate, I just think it's BS what some instructors intentionally or unintentionally do to the public.

    There is 0 evidence that proves one method is better than another, or more accurately, there is just as much evidence on both sides to make it a toss up, leaving which method to choose up to state law and the individual.

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    Senior Member Array Lotus222's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder71 View Post
    I just think it's BS what some instructors intentionally or unintentionally do to the public.
    Ain't that the truth! Apply to all educational institutions.

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