Article: [Wisconsin's] open carry law should be repealed

Article: [Wisconsin's] open carry law should be repealed

This is a discussion on Article: [Wisconsin's] open carry law should be repealed within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; http://www.postcrescent.com/article/...nclick_check=1 This is in the aftermath of two guys that hit up a Farmer's Market with AR-15s this past week. I know I'll open up ...

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Thread: Article: [Wisconsin's] open carry law should be repealed

  1. #1
    Senior Member
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    Article: [Wisconsin's] open carry law should be repealed

    http://www.postcrescent.com/article/...nclick_check=1

    This is in the aftermath of two guys that hit up a Farmer's Market with AR-15s this past week.

    I know I'll open up a "crapstorm" here by saying this, but while I'm in favor of open carry, I believe [again, my opinion only!] when in a situation where people are generally unfamiliar with open carry, an AR-15 at a city farmer's market might not be the best method to try and educate people.

    I wouldn't have a problem open-carrying a sidearm there, but personally wouldn't have done it with a couple of AR15s.

    I hope that position makes some bit of sense, although I know there is a disconnect in my position between the "right to carry any​ legal weapon" and "doing so is going to cause problems." I will admit, I'm not comfortable with this wishy-washy position I have on this.
    Eagleks likes this.
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    I did like this admission from the authors, though:

    "It would be beneficial if we could have open, respectful debate on whether concealed carry will make one of the safest states in the country even safer, but of course, in this political climate, that’s impossible."
    Every day without a negligent discharge is a good day.

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    VIP Member Array StormRhydr's Avatar
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    I understand your feelings on this. Heck, mine are a bit like that, too.

    However, if NORMAL looking, and acting people, start showing up in public, harming no innocent folks, just going about their business, then folks should start calming down on this issue.

    As it is now, they only see & hear from the press showing them pictures of the killers. I do think a big problem with CC is that the general population, while around guns every day, has no clue that they are, and that those legally with guns are no threat to them.
    ccw9mm likes this.

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    VIP Member Array OutWestSystems's Avatar
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    I have never been a fan of open carrying ARs and their kin. It just makes people freak out. Yes these people have the right to do so, but some common sense would be nice.
    Eagleks, Gav1230 and southernwi like this.

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    VIP Member Array Aceoky's Avatar
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    The article is very hard to read for me "clips" over and over again....... reporters should at least be able to get things correct, IF they wanted to. Also I did not appreciate the article going from legal open carry to "crazy folks" and "gang members" - not surprised at all- but either the article is about legal open carry or it's an opinion column and it's obvious which this falls into.

    The 2nd doesn't seem to mention "so long as folks don't freak out over NOTHING" nor words to that "hint" even. I agree the more folks see this AND learn it's legal and no one is being shot "just 'cause" the more they will realize it's not a big deal. When was the last time someone freaked out over an armed cop (with AR, shotgun and sidearm) maybe just perhaps it's because we see them daily , and the "media" has not tried to make it something it's not . Just perhaps.

    I personally have no desire to walk around with an AR (my all steel 1911 is enough to carry don't need more weight) but I fail to see the "big deal"- it is either legal or it isn't . THAT should be the end of it, LEO have no business bothering law abiding citizens in a free nation the USA is not a police state nor should it ever become one
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    Senior Member Array Lotus222's Avatar
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    I still don't understand entire mentality of someone carrying a rifle being worse than someone openly carrying or concealing a handgun. The fact that this situation makes pro-gun people uncomfortable essentially proves that the anti-gun media has been succeeding.

    You can argue that these people are "hurting the cause", but I have grown more and more inclined to think that they are doing the exact opposite. All you have to do is look at the facts. Statistically, rifles account for about 1.5% of all gun related homicides. Yet they are the target of the anti-gun media because of extremely isolated incidents. Also, people freak out no matter what kind of gun they see someone carrying if they are an anti because they are uneducated on firearms and don't know the difference. All pistols are glocks, and all rifles are machine guns, and all AR's are bazookas.

    Political correctedness is a sham. I'll keep on saying this: Because of the way that gun laws are written all across the country, you must be 21 to carry a handgun (usually openly or concealed), but you can be 18 and sling an AR across your back. People say to use "common sense" when choosing the type of gun to carry, but the laws don't support "common sense". Also, "common sense" to one person is going to be "batcrap insane" to another person.

    Legal is legal. We have the 2A. We need to stop being in the mindset that the government should allow more gun control because the media convinces people to freak out over nothing. If rifles were banned, this report would have been the same about their pistols. If pistols were banned from OC, then people would freak out about CC. Just because people can't see guns that are CC'd, doesn't mean they aren't still there.

    I mean, look at where the anti-gun propaganda has gotten our military bases and military run facilities. Servicemen/women, and civilians are being shot defenselessly on them because the inhabitants aren't allowed to have guns. ...Where is the "common sense" in that???

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    Member Array Yarg28's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lotus222 View Post
    The fact that this situation makes pro-gun people uncomfortable essentially proves that the anti-gun media has been succeeding.
    I disagree with that comment. I'm pro gun and pro 2nd whole heartedly and the media hasn't influenced me in any way regarding the comfort level of open carrying long guns in a farm market.

    I think its a psychological bias but I can promise you, if I'm standing in a farm market, and two guys roll up in there carrying long guns of any kind, my SA is going off like bonkers. Doesn't mean I call LEO or respond in any way. Doesn't mean that I'm scared...but I'm watching...at least for a while.

    Here's why. I (emphasis on I) don't believe that the normal rational person that believes in the 2nd amendment feels compelled to strut around carrying a rifle for no reason at all. Don't mistake that last phrase as, "he just said people have no reason to carry AR's! Heresy!" That IS NOT what I'm saying. I fully believe in the 2nd. But the stable company that i keep would just NEVER do what they did. I'm not saying that makes me or my company correct. I'm simply saying that we have, like many people, a bias about the mentality and responsibility level of people that would do that. Just like I have a bias about people that drive around with bull testicles hanging off the back of their overly loud mufflered 4 wheel drive trucks. Just like i have a bias about people that have an Obama sticker on the window of their vehicle. Everybody has biases.

    Point is, I normally view people that do things like that as idiotic. So I'm watching these guys waiting for something idiotic to happen. At some point I may think, "ok, these guys are normal but just different than my normal" and the alarm stops ringing. I'm not even saying that my view is fair. But it's not likely to change any time soon.

    The flip side to that is that there are a lot of idiots (aka antis) on the other end of the histogram. So, all you have to do is get a handful of each of these morons in a square mile and all the sudden its a colossal crap storm of rampant ignorance.

    Nothing that the media has done has influenced my opinion on the matter because I pay zero attention to them. I believe that the normal responsible adult response is not carrying AR's (or whatever rifle) around in a farm market unless you're in say, Mogadishu.

    Again, i didn't say its wrong. I just said its not normally accepted or expected, even by many people that are staunchly pro 2nd, like ME. And I'm certain someone will say, "thats the problem! it should be normally accepted!" WHY? I dont want to see people carrying rifles around normally in our country. I want us to have the right to but I dont want it to be part of my daily commute.

    People have fears. They are largely unsubstantiated and disproportionate; but that doesn't make them less afraid. You cant just say "there is nothing to fear" and expect them to accept it, regardless of the laws.

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    VIP Member Array Aceoky's Avatar
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    People have fears = true , they don't panic when they see open carry by LEO and there ARE reasons why- in large part they've learned by seeing them and them not "going off and killing folks at will" same for open carry by citizens, without folks getting used to the idea, how would they? I also agree with "telling them nothing to be afraid of" won't eliminate their fears quickly - showing them has the same effect as with LEO (IMO)
    ccw9mm and Brad426 like this.

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    Senior Member Array Lotus222's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yarg28 View Post
    Text
    Fair enough. Although, take into consideration the states laws. Is it legal for an 18 to 20 year old to carry a handgun? If not, but it is legal to carry a rifle, and this person wants to carry, they have two options. Break the law, or carry a rifle. So there are potentially legitimate reasons other than convenience or a fashion statement.

    Now, I'll divulge in the psychology of the situation. So, it is commonplace that a person carries a pistol, and not a rifle. So your average carrier has heightened SA because of a scenario that is outside the "norm". What I fail to understand is the psychology of the acceptance of a handgun, but the fear of a rifle. I mean, look at how often somebody carries a rifle around, and absolutely nothing negative happens compared to handguns. Sometimes we see a youtube video of a MWAG call, and that is the climax of the situation.

    Handguns sling bullets, just like a rifle. They can carry just about the capacity. You can definitely conceal the same if not more rounds of ammo for a handgun than a rifle. So... What's the big deal? Why are people more scared of a rifle than a handgun? Is it because a persons bias to believe a rifle is going to start shooting because it is less common than a handgun? Or is it because the media has pounded into the public's head that rifle = unstoppable mindless killing machine? In the end, is open carrying a rifle really any different than open carrying a handgun?

    I'll definitely agree that I think the difference is completely and totally psychological.
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    Member Array Yarg28's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lotus222 View Post
    What I fail to understand is the psychology of the acceptance of a handgun, but the fear of a rifle.

    I'll definitely agree that I think the difference is completely and totally psychological.
    It's not about acceptance of a handgun over a rifle. The difference is that when i see somebody open carrying a rifle, I'm not concerned about the rifle. I'm concerned about the mental faculties of the person that feels compelled to carry it at a farm market. It's just a trigger (no pun intended). The rifle (at a farm market) is typically a symptom of jack-assery so I'm going to be diligent until I'm sure that my assessment is incorrect.

    It has absolutely nothing to do with the difference between a handgun and a rifle and statistics about their use. Those are rational discussions. That's why I stated that it was a psychological bias and even eluded that it's probably not fair most of the time. It still exists though because human beings are NOT rational creatures. They just aren't. All of us are weak at using rationale. That's a fact. The difference is, some of us admit it.

    Also, no matter what the statistics show, a rifle is infinitely (ok, maybe not infinitely but you get the idea) more deadly than a handgun. Which is why many many people on this forum, say they only carry a handgun because a rifle ISN'T practical. That lack of practicality is exactly why I would be on alert if i saw people carrying a rifle at a farm market.

    I just think hoping that people can carry rifles in a normal place of business without issue is a bit "wet-dreamy" and personally, I don't think we'd be a better country if people did. I do believe we'd be a worse country if we lost the right to though.
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    Senior Member Array Lotus222's Avatar
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    Well said. For clarification, I wasn't trying to pin that statement on you, more like the general non anti-gun population.
    Yarg28 likes this.

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    Senior Member Array GeorgiaDawg's Avatar
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    If people want to make open carrying a rifle (AR-15 appears to be the most common at this time) socially acceptable, it needs to be done en masse, and not by one or two people here and there. There needs to be a visible campaign to educate and inform the public about the legality of openly carrying firearms, even "evil black rifles". Simply carrying one isn't enough to be an effective educator of the public; all it will do is get the police called on you and scare people away from guns and from those carrying them.

    Having one or two people carrying those things in public doesn't do much for the cause except get the backs up on the ignorant. If people OC rifles in the attempt to educate, they need to be doing more than strapping on a rifle and walking around in public. They should be involved in handing out pamphlets and hosting events that are widely publicized.
    "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." - Ephesians 2:8-9

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    Member Array TelumPisces's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by southernwi View Post
    , I believe [again, my opinion only!] when in a situation where people are generally unfamiliar with open carry, an AR-15 at a city farmer's market might not be the best method to try and educate people.
    So where is the best place to try and make people familiar? My opinion is that city slickers never go out into the country to see that guns are tools and not the scary object they think they are. So guess what, you have to bring it to them. They are not going to do it on their own. Maybe if more and more get out and show people that it's not the folks OCing a gun in a nice holster that they need to be worried about. It's the thug that CC his weapon in his waist band that you cannot see that is the problem. I don't hear of too many OCing folks in a good holster that decide to spring a firearm related crime on people.

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    VIP Member Array Smitty901's Avatar
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    Open carry in Wisconsin is not based on a law that was passed it is based on the Wisconsin State Constitution. CC is an ACT passed by the State and signed by a great Governor.
    Like any rights there are problems Look at the Capital building and the freedom of speech.

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    When the sheep get scared they make a lot of noise. Is it a right..Yep. Do I agree with the right...Yep.. Are there better ways to educate the general public about firearms..YES.. Public perception is a big deal. You can shout it from the roof tops that its your right, who cares what they think and so forth, but these people vote and make noise of there own. It is a fine line we walk in today's world as it pertains to firearms. We need to be more "tactical" about our approach....
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

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