Open Carry and corporate coffee

This is a discussion on Open Carry and corporate coffee within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This comes in response to the recent "neutrality statements" of two more coffee selling corporations. I'll probably irritate a people few people with what I'm ...

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Thread: Open Carry and corporate coffee

  1. #1
    Member Array RTF_Squared's Avatar
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    Open Carry and corporate coffee

    This comes in response to the recent "neutrality statements" of two more coffee selling corporations. I'll probably irritate a people few people with what I'm going to say here. I open carry, have open carried, and will continue to open carry. Not all of the time any more, but still whenever I feel like it. I carried openly for some time before I ever threw a shirt over it. I support open carry when used as a means to legally defend oneself or innocents. I also support the message of "Free men don't ask permission to bear arms," as many states that allow open carry don't require a permit for it. A lot of people pay the coat tax, wait the period, buy the gun, the holster and then decide it's not for them.

    I could argue the perceived advantages and disadvantages of each, but its been done to death. "Open carry is allegedly because it 'deters crime,' because nobody messes with the guy with a gun," "gives a faster draw because there is nothing in the way." "raises situational awareness because you have to be aware to stop gun-grabs," whatever, we've heard them all. Concealed carry "makes you the gray man, nobody knows you're armed", "gives you the tactical advantage of surprise,"lets you drop your guard more," We've heard them all too. There is truth and fallacy in both sets of statements. This dead horse does not need beaten, but if you do feel the need, there is a glue factory that wants to hire you. Go there.

    Regardless, there needs to be a line drawn, and it needs to be drawn now. If you open carry daily, for personal protection, improvement or whatever legitimate issue, I'm in complete approval. There is another group that needs to be put in check. The "open carry activists" need to seriously check themselves and their priorities. If you open carry primarily because its fashionable, funny, to send a message or freak people out, you're an idiot.

    I get who you are. You bought a pile of guns because "the evil Muslim president was gonna take 'em all away," bought all the ammo "because you'll need it for the revolution," and now you think your some sort of representative of our community. You scraped together whatever you could to buy the best piece of garbage gun you could afford for the same reason as the guy above and have never fired it once because the guy above bought all the 12,500 round barrels of 5.56 and all the spam cans of Tula. Neither of you idiots have fired your gun, but you're ready for the revolution. Foe-Shoh.

    We know why this is now a topic, these idiots are trying to use a series of corporate coffee joints as a political battleground. You bought that stupid dropleg holster you don't even know how to set up properly, put your HK Mark23 or Hi-Point in it, grabbed your Larue NINJ-AR, or beat down surplus SKS and went there to show your support. Because there is nothing that makes the average barista cooking your burnt latte feel more appreciated that 50 guano-based crazy people walking in to the shop with guns they've never fired. It was a fashionable way to freak some people out in a funny way to send a message and there was caffeine involved, so you were totally in.

    You didn't even get the memo that they were only passively following the law. If the law allowed you to conceal a snubby .22 revolver and nothing else, that was ok. If your state allowed you to carry a belt fed crew served machine gun, that was legit too. On the same note, if the law required you to put a hollowpoint through your genitals before entering a coffee shop while carrying, they'll be there to mop up your blood and body parts to keep a clean and sanitary shop running. That's all the message was about, passively obeying the local law to keep a clean and sanitary shop running.

    Now look what you have done. You made a Switzerland into a battleground, and miserably lost. The CEO had issued a weak statement of his actual views and holy crap, the CEO bigwig of a large corporation actually disagrees with you, either to begin with, or because you are in idiot. Either is equally bad, because you idiots only paid him millions of your money in two dollar bills buying nasty coffee for all of your friends and family. He was neutral with the people who weren't idiots that open carried legally when pushed on the issue by the idiots on the other side who pack a Pruis instead of 1911. He accommodated us, but you idiots were the one to make a show of it. You think he wants idiots coast to coast openly carrying coffee in his stores? NO! He wants to sell coffee in peace, he's not a politician.

    The CEO's neutrality is better than other businesses, such as a certain corporate chicken wing joint kicking out uniformed police officers for being armed, but it is not support. Did he ever say he would stand against proposed legislation, donate to groups that will, claim to be a firearms enthusiast or offer a "bring your gun to pick up coffee day?" Nope. Not once. You conflated his passive neutrality with support the same way the other side conflated all gun owners with you idiots and your idiotic actions. The same way that normal gun owners are conflated with conservative Christian nutjobs, and vice versa.

    If you're one of these idiots, check yourself now. You were doing this garbage before the panic and before coffee, but you need to stop now. If you open carried your SKS with a towel on your head in your suburban neighborhood just for the reaction, or strapped on that AK or AR or Bolt action and walked through downtown just because it was legal, or are lugging the biggest freaking gun you can find because your concealed carry permit application was denied, kick rocks. We could do without you in our community. You are an idiot, no asset to anybody and unfortunately a representative of our whole community that makes us all look like idiots just like you. Too bad most of us aren't. Thanks bro. Your strong work is really breaking new ground for our fight for recognition of status and freedom.

    This is in important and often neglected or misapplied aspect of open carry. Like it or not, you are a representative of our whole community when you display a gun. The manner you conduct yourself in, the way you talk to people, the way you carry yourself even the purpose you left the house for all under public scrutiny. You can make us look good and present yourself as a person who should have a gun and be friendly, polite and properly educated on your local laws and Constitutionally protected rights when confronted either positively or negatively confronted on your carry habits by all parties.

    So what should you idiots do now, besides maybe pistol-whip yourself for all of us you just disgraced? Sell those guns and all your ammo, or use them to get some training or at least some mindset and practice. If you can't appreciate that openly carrying a gun in public means you might have to kill somebody in a gunfight or die trying, leave it at home. If you can't do that, I promise you can't be a representative of our community and maintain any respect within our outside it. You are not an asset, merely a liability. If its not a practical weapon to carry with you every day, leave it at home or get one that is. If you can lug that Mallninja AR comfortably and legally and legitimately think it is the defensive weapon you require to survive, and do so every day, cool. You probably live in the sticks, a continuous riot zone, the cartel warzone or the Middle East and I'd probably make the same choice considering the facts.

    Considering a couple more nasty-coffee selling corporations just made the same Switzerland statement, I hope you don't repeat your actions here. No "appreciation days" no support, none of it. Tolerance for idiots is wearing thin quickly by a lot of people. Don't push all of our luck as gun owners with your idiotic actions. I apologize if any of these words are a bit abrasive, but we as a community must police ourselves. Too many people are crossing way over the line of responsible gun ownership. None of this should really apply to Defensive Carry members, but if you feel it does, you need to hear it, loudly and clearly, plain as day, that your actions must stop immediately. We can't afford any more of this idiocy.

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Array Dandyone's Avatar
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    Amen. And, thank you.



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  4. #3
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RTF_Squared View Post
    Too many people are crossing way over the line of responsible gun ownership. None of this should really apply to Defensive Carry members, but if you feel it does, you need to hear it, loudly and clearly, plain as day, that your actions must stop immediately. We can't afford any more of this idiocy.
    hmmm...responsible gun ownership:
    All guns are always loaded.
    Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.
    Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.
    Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.
    Sell those guns and all your ammo, or use them to get some training or at least some mindset and practice. If you can't appreciate that openly carrying a gun in public means you might have to kill somebody in a gunfight or die trying, leave it at home. If you can't do that, I promise you can't be a representative of our community and maintain any respect within our outside it.
    You are not an editor to the 2A and therefore can not determine what infringe means. Seems you want that the only folks that can carry have to do it your way. BTW: Who says that anyone is a representative to the gun community and must act in a manner that is toward your liking? I for one was never nomintaed or voted in as a representative.
    You do realize that when someone is exercising their 2A rights (OC) they may also be expressing thier 1A rights. Sounds like you want to suprress that also. Way to go!!! You must be a strict Constitutionilist! Want to tell me who to vote for next?

    I do agree that many folks are idiots. But you do realize that the Starbucks fiasco is small taters. What makes the news is kids blowing off the heads of siblings because of parents that are IRRESONSIBLE gun owners by letting their firearms be left un secured. What else makes the news and sways opinion more than OC'ers (even stupid ones) are the day to day killings with guns, either by accident (those dang responsible gun owners again) or suicides or murders.
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  5. #4
    Distinguished Member Array noway2's Avatar
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    I voted no. I would have liked for more than a binary option. While I don't approve of what the attention "prostitutes" are doing, I strongly support the idea of open and concealed carry. One thing I have less approval for than those seeking attention are those who try to tell me that I must carry only in a manner which they approve. Open carry has it's places. For example: some people who can't carry concealed can still carry open, some facilities (e.g. banks used to be this way in NC) were permitted open carry, but not concealed, and (again in my state) if you were to find yourself having a beer at dinner being able to open carry versus "concealed on or about your person" makes the difference between legal and crime.
    DontTreadOnI and Chief1297 like this.

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    Member Array John Luttrel's Avatar
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    It's my opinion it's one thing to have a legally carried pistol, holstered openly or concealed, but legal or not, I can see where folks might would get nervous about somebody coming into a store or restaurant with an AR-15 or pump shotgun in their hands.
    John Luttrell

  7. #6
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    OP, do you expect anyone to give thoughtful consideration to your argument when the premise is "If you open carry primarily because its fashionable, funny, to send a message or freak people out, you're an idiot," and you only manage to support your argument with a series of ad hominems?

    Please learn how to properly frame an argument. What you presented is not an argument. It is a puerile missive that deserves as much consideration as the rantings of a child in the throes of a temper tantrum.
    wcearp, suntzu, Aceoky and 10 others like this.
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    2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.
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    4. Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.

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    I need a lawyer to interpret that last one.
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  9. #8
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    Not a fan of those that oc just to bait cops or cause a reaction. They are more obvious than they think.

    Legitimate oc is ok with me. I just choose not to do it.

    -from my phone... excuse spelling
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  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by 357and40 View Post
    Not a fan of those that oc just to bait cops or cause a reaction. They are more obvious than they think.

    Legitimate oc is ok with me. I just choose not to do it.

    -from my phone... excuse spelling
    You managed to express your opinion in less than 1,483 words, and without insulting multiple groups of people. RTF_Squared, see how that works?
    suntzu, 357and40 and Oldpsufan like this.
    -PEF, a Framer with a Steelie...
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    1. All guns are always loaded.
    2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.
    3. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.
    4. Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.

  11. #10
    VIP Member Array Aceoky's Avatar
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    Yet again- I personally am pretty tired of the ONE sided argument of OC folks "caused this" when even SB CEO made it quite clear the anti gun zealots were at least equally to blame - it take two to Tango and it takes two "side" for any type of fight IF either side "backs off " obviously there would be no fight. YET over and over the facts and reality are simple ignored and several gun owners are ready to "eat their own " for something that is legal (while the anti gun folks certainly did things even mentioned that were clearly illegal)

    Credit where it is due- one side excercised their rights under the law and COTUS = another "side" certainly did not like nor agree with that and even according to the CEO of SB "made confrontations and threats against SB employees and management" but "yeah OK" it was only the "idiot OC" folks - Ocean front property in AZ anyone?

    One has every right to the "opinion" of what some folks done was stupid- which obviously is far from illegal or we'd never - ever have enough jails to hold all the folks who "are stupid according to someone else's Opinions" Thank God for that also

    IF anyone "really thinks" SB is "neutral" (not actually just greedy and willing to "con gun owners" into spending $ with them) well that is your right to that opinion even though it is in spite of what has been stated and not because of it. Fact is SB "played" this until it became too "risky" (likely in the minds of some lawyers opinion) to continue to do so. No more and no less. SB has NEVER been "pro gun" (far from it IMO- one only look at the other issues they "embrace" to figure out the whole truth IMO)
    357and40 and Poorly like this.

  12. #11
    VIP Member Array Brad426's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PEF View Post
    OP, do you expect anyone to give thoughtful consideration to your argument when the premise is "If you open carry primarily because its fashionable, funny, to send a message or freak people out, you're an idiot," and you only manage to support your argument with a series of ad hominems?

    Please learn how to properly frame an argument. What you presented is not an argument. It is a puerile missive that deserves as much consideration as the rantings of a child in the throes of a temper tantrum.
    Yep, puerile.
    PEF likes this.
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  13. #12
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    I think OC and CC are both fine options. I think OC activists who maintain a positive, "hey let's discuss this" attitude will win over the fence sitters a hell of a lot quicker than, I got my smokepole and I want a confrontation types. Most of the anti firearm types have their fears/opinions based in malinformed ignorance and can be opened to the reality of firearm ownership. Being positive, polite and informative and in a good humor(not the ice cream) will win more understanding and acceptance than loudly proclaiming we loves guns day at a leftist "coffee" house whose primary customer base is unemployable hipsters and silly kids who would not know good coffee if they smelled it.

    The OP is right about the confrontation for the sake of confrontation types. All they do is sharpen a much more malevolent focus on the rest of us .l don't think i made any ad hominem assaults here, just calling it as I see it. Open carry is legal here and not discouraged outside of Port au Prince du Nord . We do have some moments but with patience and a positive outlook ( and sometimes THAT is difficult) all but the most dedicated slave master wannabee will not only make an effort to understand, it's not improbable to see them come to the shops and the ranges to see what it is all about.

    Okay, I've taxed my senile old head enough..
    Qtip, RTF_Squared and JDE101 like this.

  14. #13
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    The OP seems to be somehow critical of random people setting themselves up as representatives of the community of gun owners/carriers, and very critical of their idiotic and uninformed opinions. Hmm...

    Does anyone else see the irony here?
    "Freedom and discipline have come to be regarded as mutually exclusive, when in fact freedom is not at all the opposite, but the final reward of discipline" - Elisabeth Elliot

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  15. #14
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    No.

    I would say that the anti-gun climate is what's getting out of hand, and that those rising to the challenge (against it) are doing so because they see where doing little to nothing will lead. As a result, it's all getting more visibility, all occurring more frequently, in some rare (albeit well-publicized and -denigrated) instances getting cranked out of proportion. But it's happening for a reason. No real way around that.
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  16. #15
    MJK
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    Legal=legitimate. Confrontational=questionable judgement, though sometimes necessary to expand the envelope.
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