This is a discussion on MWAG Email within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Had to go back to California Pizza Kitchen in Arlington, VA last night. The regular manager had the night off.
After the last customer left ...
October 11th, 2013 05:13 PM
Had to go back to California Pizza Kitchen in Arlington, VA last night. The regular manager had the night off.
After the last customer left we got started and about an hour later the manager came over and was sitting at the bar (couple feet away) watching us. After a while he chuckles and told us that "I would stay and baby sit you guys until the cleaning crew comes at midnite, but I see you're packin' and will probably be okay."
I'm thinking this guy gets it, we say our niceties, he leaves and we proceed to complete the job, getting home around 3 am.
About 1:30 this afternoon my customer, a General Contractor based in Boston, calls me (he was a little excited) and the conversation went like this:
GC: Hey, Stoveman, it's GC. Were you on site last night or was it two of your guys?
Me: I was there with one other guy.
GC: Did either of you have a gun?
GC: Really? You had a gun last night?
GC: Seriously, why? Why would you carry a gun?
Me: A cop is too heavy.
GC: I got this email from corporate. Apparently the manager took a picture of you and sent it up the chain and they're breathing down my neck.
Here's the text of the email. I x'd out the names.
From: xxx [mailto:email@example.com]
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 1:11 PM
To: xxx; xxx; xxxx xxxxxxxxx
Subject: Hopefully he doesn't slip!
Hopefully this guy doesn't slip while reaching for his tape measure!
All kidding aside - this is completely unacceptable. This is the stainless guy - and whether this gentleman has his carry and or concealed permit or not is irrelevant - this is NEVER acceptable. Who was the super on the job and why did he allow this?
Here's the picture that was attached to the email. Guess I looked pretty threatening with that welding torch in my hand.
I hadn't seen the email yet when the GC called me.
After the above exchange with the GC I told him about the conversation with the manager last night and we also had a nice conversation about the carry laws in VA and that OC is not uncommon. He finally got it (I think).
This was absolutely the first negative response I have ever received about OC'ing....
Moral of the story -
1. Not everyone who appears to get it does. (the CPK manager)
2. Know the laws of the state cold.
3. Be able to articulate those laws in a calm and rational manner when questioned.
4. California Pizza Kitchen is anti gun.
October 11th, 2013 05:39 PM
Stove , I don't think most people get it (we get it here) but i never OC in front of my employees for that reason . I have a couple libs that are good fabricators and I don't want to rock the boat .
Once all my employees leave for the day i do OC for the extra hour or so at the end of the day . Salespeople that came later in the day have seen me open carry .
I won't even OC in front of my employees in VA when we were working at the Costco in Sterling . But once i leave i OC from that point and if i stop for lunch in VA.
You were within the law and following the law but still have to hear the grief and have the possibilty of losing business and work . It sucks all ways i know .
Member of the NRA
Keep your booger hook off the bang switch until you want to destroy something .
October 11th, 2013 05:40 PM
It's California Pizza Kitchen. Why are you surprised?
Really though, nothing you did seems out of line at all. If you OC enough a negative encounter will eventually happen. There are just too many idiots for it not to. However, as I'm sure you know, the negatives are few and far between and are far surpassed by neutral and positive interactions. Carry on!
October 11th, 2013 05:41 PM
Its only a Job.....
Don"t let stupid be your skill set....
Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......
October 11th, 2013 06:02 PM
So, did your contractor back you up when he spoke with his corporate client? I hope this doesn't affect the amount of work he throws your way.
Just another reason why I favor concealed carry; it limits the interference from the sheep.
P.S. I think the response, "Because a cop is too heavy", while true, comes off as cliche and flippant. If the person asking were capable of understanding the implications, they wouldn't be asking in the first place. He needs something more solid to tell corporate that they can relate to. Something like: "We were there alone in the wee hours of the morning with no one else to watch our backs while we worked or went back and forth to the truck for tools, etc. and knowing police response times we could be dead unless we had a way of defending ourselves."
Keep us apprised of how this develops, if you will. Good luck!
October 11th, 2013 07:28 PM
Not sure who the GC your working for is, large or small independent one. I know most of the larger ones (Gilbane, KBS, WM Jordan, Whiting Turner) have a written no weapons policy that they enforce. I always left mine locked in the truck when arriving at the job site.
Freedom doesn't come free. It is bought and paid for by the lives and blood of our men and women in uniform.
NRA Life Member
October 11th, 2013 08:11 PM
I never OC on a customers premise and I am the boss. It prevents from having problems such as yours.
"Marines don't surrender-they win or die." from Brute
October 11th, 2013 09:19 PM
Even as uniformed, armed security, I get grief from client employees. Too many sheep....
October 11th, 2013 10:41 PM
I have no idea if he backed me up or not and really don't care as we did nothing wrong. As long as the invoice gets paid I'm golden....
Originally Posted by Hoganbeg
This was actually my first job for this customer. If I get no more business from him it's definitely not the end of the world. If the manager really had a stiffy for guns he could have told us about their corporate policy and we would have locked them in the truck.
Obviously the manager on duty was a spineless sack and if he worked for me and didn't enforce company policy (although obviously misguided in this case) he would have been shown the door....
Shame on these idiots for not knowing state law...
October 11th, 2013 10:54 PM
I'm of the opinion that most people don't even know the laws about operating their motor vehicles and they consider gun laws to be arcana.
October 11th, 2013 11:00 PM
Originally Posted by welder516
I hear ya, but my company is set up a little different. All of my employees know where I stand on guns and the 2A. Half the company have their permits. OC or CC is encouraged where legal while we are working. The other guy I was working with last night was carrying also, I just happened to be the one photographed.
We do company "team builders" at the range, which is a PC way to say we take off early on a Friday and go blastin!
Instead of a company picnic last summer I took the guys ATV riding for a weekend and everyone was carrying.
Nothing is going to change because of this one incident, if anything it was a chance to enlighten one of the sheeple to the way it should be....
October 11th, 2013 11:14 PM
October 11th, 2013 11:14 PM
To each their own....
Originally Posted by BkCo1
I am also the boss (owner) of my company and OC wherever legal and this is the first time I have had any kind of issue.
If a regular customer requested that I not carry at their establishment then I would certainly honor their request and continue to do work for them, albeit for a higher price...
October 11th, 2013 11:26 PM
I don't see what the problem is. You were in casual/street wear, and the generally accepted rule is: For casual dress, any handgun and holster combination is acceptable. Pancake, yaqui, polymer, leather – it does not matter. In situations in which casual attire is acceptable, you may walk in confidence with any choice of holster and handgun combination.
Source: Open Carry - A simple code of rules we should all follow
(I love citing myself as authority).
Seriously, I do carry OWB, but under a long T shirt or untucked shirt. Too many people don't get it, and I'm too old to give a dang to try and change their minds.
I hope this does not cause you problems in your job.
-PEF, a Framer with a Steelie...
1. All guns are always loaded.
2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.
4. Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.
October 12th, 2013 01:02 AM
Maybe next time if you work for em again catch this guy grounded real good and accidentally brush him with the stinger
" It is sad governments are chief'ed by the double tongues." quote Ten Bears Movie Outlaw Josie Wales
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