Explain this sign to me.

This is a discussion on Explain this sign to me. within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; The sign says: "The unlicensed possession of a weapon on these premises is a felony with a maximum penalty of 10 years imprisonment and a ...

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Thread: Explain this sign to me.

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array adric22's Avatar
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    Explain this sign to me.



    The sign says:

    "The unlicensed possession of a weapon on these premises is a felony with a maximum penalty of 10 years imprisonment and a fine not to exceed $10,000."

    In Texas, every establishment that sells alcohol is required to display this sign. So you'll see it in front of Wal-Mart, Target, restaurants, etc. OK, I've always been taught to ignore this sign in Texas if you have a CHL. I mean, obviously I am licensed and so it does not apply.

    But what about when open-carrying a rifle? Many members of Open Carry Texas have carried into such places without incident. Yet, obviously there is no such thing as a license to carry a rifle. I have asked many of the locals here that have been doing this about this sign and nobody can give me a straight forward answer. The TABC themselves came out a while back and said the main consequence is that if the establishment allows an armed person on their property that they could lose their license to sell alcohol. But yet the sign says a person is committing a felony. Obviously, I don't want to risk being charged with a felony. That could loose me my rights to even own guns anymore.

    I suppose anyone could create a sign. For example, Wal-Mart could hang a sign that says "it is a felony to chew gun on this premises" but that doesn't make it true. Has anyone been able to find an actual law in the penal code that fits with what this sign says?

    I've carried my rifle into many establishments already, but I've been avoiding the ones with the TABC sign. This is me on the left in this photo taken at a local Chick-Fil-A.
    "Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws." -Plato

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    In your state, do the carry statutes ...

    a. Disallow OC of handguns?
    b. Disallow OC of rifles?
    c. Disallow carry of any firearm in any place that sells or serves alcoholic drinks?

    If you have no statutes that state these, I'd say you're likely good to go.

    Of course, finding the little suckers can be a bear, if not neatly all arranged within the "firearms/carry" related sections of the state code.
    GlassWolf likes this.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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  4. #3
    Distinguished Member Array GlassWolf's Avatar
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    The sign is confusing because it is poorly worded. It should state that "the unlawful possession of a firearm on these premises..." as opposed to the "unlicensed."
    It such case, it would simply mean that if the law does not allow the means by which you are in possession of a firearm, then the penalties are as folllows. Open carry is legal, so they are not in violation of the law. If a person with a felony conviction carries a concealed weapon into a liquor store, and is arrested, he can't say he didn't know the penalty.
    gatorbait51 and Hopyard like this.
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  5. #4
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    It's only a felony if it violates a state law. Find the state law that states so. There's your answer.
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    Since Texas doesn't allow open carry of handguns, but does allow open carry of rifles, these signs are confusing since they don't actually cover open carry of long guns. Per the TABC site (http://www.tabc.state.tx.us/laws/sig...irements.asp):

    Weapons Warning Sign
    All alcoholic beverages retailers must post one of two firearms signs. One sign is intended for use on the types of premises where a holder of a concealed hand gun license may lawfully possess a concealed hand gun: establishments licensed to sell alcoholic beverages for off-premises consumption or, if licensed for sale for on-premises consumption, establishments whose alcohol sales are 50% or less of total gross receipts. It warns that unlicensed possession of a concealed weapon is a felony.

    The second sign, the 51% sign, is to be posted on the premises of establishments where the possession of any concealed weapon is illegal. These are establishments that are licensed to sell alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption whose alcohol sales constitutes more than half of gross receipts. These signs have 51% in large red letters superimposed over the warning and the warning notes that possession of a concealed weapon on the premises is a felony.

    As a general rule, a true restaurant will have alcohol sales that are less than 50% of gross receipts and would be expected to post the first sign. However, if its alcohol sales are greater than 50% of gross receipts, then it would have to post the second.

    Weapons Warning Sign - If alcohol sales constitute less than half of gross receipts, the required sign says: "It is unlawful to carry a weapon on the premises unless the person is licensed to carry the weapon under the concealed handgun law." If alcohol sales constitute more than half of gross receipts, the signs have 51% in large red letters superimposed over the warning which notes that possession of a concealed weapon on the premises is a felony.
    (emphasis added)

    These signs apply to concealed weapons. But the authorities might be able to make a test case, since someone carrying a long gun is 'unlicensed'.
    Aceoky, gatorbait51 and baren like this.
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  7. #6
    Member Array StripesDude's Avatar
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    If you have a CHL, you can carry beyond that sign in TX. Other than restricted places, we only need to worry about the 51% and 30.06 signs.

    Why would you want to OC a rifle if you have a CHL? To prove a 2nd amendment point?
    gatorbait51 likes this.
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  8. #7
    Senior Member Array adric22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StripesDude View Post
    If you have a CHL, you can carry beyond that sign in TX. Other than restricted places, we only need to worry about the 51% and 30.06 signs.

    Why would you want to OC a rifle if you have a CHL? To prove a 2nd amendment point?
    That's more or less exactly why we've been doing it all over Texas. We are trying to get open-carry of pistols passed during the next legislative session.
    gatorbait51 and oldman45 like this.
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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StripesDude View Post
    Why would you want to OC a rifle if you have a CHL? To prove a 2nd amendment point?
    Lots of other prior discussions grouse about this point. But that's not what this thread is about.
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    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  10. #9
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    Do you think this will help? Not once have I ever been swayed by a banner or poster waver.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
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  11. #10
    VIP Member Array Kennydale's Avatar
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    My take is that I see that sign all the time and I have a TX CHL so I am licensed... I ignore it. The people with their long guns slung over their back i understand in Texas is legal, and don't require a CHL to do. I could be wrong!
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  12. #11
    Member Array StripesDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Lots of other prior discussions grouse about this point. But that's not what this thread is about.
    You sure? Then what's the point of the included photo?
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  13. #12
    Distinguished Member Array Hoganbeg's Avatar
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    I note that the sign does not limit the proscription to merely "firearms" but says Weapons".

  14. #13
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StripesDude View Post
    You sure? Then what's the point of the included photo?
    ... to get at the question of legality, which each paragraph in the OP's post addresses.
    Aceoky and gatorbait51 like this.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  15. #14
    Member Array StripesDude's Avatar
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    And no Chick Fil A would have that sign posted.....guess I'm reading between the lines
    gatorbait51 likes this.
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  16. #15
    Senior Member Array adric22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StripesDude View Post
    And no Chick Fil A would have that sign posted.....guess I'm reading between the lines
    Correct.. I was specific in my original post that I have not taken my rifle into places with the sign posted. Chick-Fil-A does not sell alcohol and thus has no such sign posted, thus I will eat there with my rifle. I just used the photo to make absolutely clear what activity I was talking about in regards to open carry so there was no ambiguity. However, others have gone into stores with the sign and had no issues. I don't want to do that until somebody can clear up the legality of this sign.
    gatorbait51 likes this.
    "Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws." -Plato

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