Is It A Good Idea to Open Carry, Knowing What Will Happen? But to Promote Right?
This is a discussion on Is It A Good Idea to Open Carry, Knowing What Will Happen? But to Promote Right? within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I've been watching a great number of open carry videos as well as DUI check point and Border Patrol check point videos and it got ...
November 29th, 2013 05:16 AM
Is It A Good Idea to Open Carry, Knowing What Will Happen? But to Promote Right?
I've been watching a great number of open carry videos as well as DUI check point and Border Patrol check point videos and it got me thinking about civil disobedience as a way to promote our rights today.
I am currently an active duty soldier and avid gun blogger www.MyGunDiary.com is my site. I will be getting out of the army in a couple years and wondered exactly how active I might become in promoting gun rights as a private citizen.
The first thing I noticed in a number of the open carry videos is that when police arrive to question someone who is legally open carrying, they say they received a call or complaint and are obligated to check it out.
What this says to me is that a big part of promoting gun rights is to publish information to the public to inform them of the legality of open carry in their respective areas of the county.
Secondly, police dispatchers and 911 operators should also be trained and made aware of the legality of open carry.
For example: Let's say I call 911 to report someone walking down my street with a holstered gun on his hip and a rifle slung over his back. It's reasonable for a trained operator to ask the question: Is the person displaying the weapons in a threatening manner? Things of that nature. And if not, they should continue on to inform the caller that open carry is NOT illegal. Thank you for your call.
I'm not a fan of purposely inciting a confrontation or encounter with law enforcement but it's astounding and frustrating to see that our basic liberties are not respected more. Right?
If I'm just minding my own business, walking down the street, legally open carrying, not acting strangely or in a threatening manner, then why should I have to prove anything or answer any questions by the police?
Along the same lines are DUI stops and Border Patrol stops. The 4th amendment.
See what I'm getting at here?
Granted the police have a job to do to keep us safe, but this must be balanced with a respect of the private citizens liberties and freedoms. The freedom to travel unmolested on public roads.
These are questions I am passionate about because after all, I serve in a combat unit in the army. What freedoms exactly am I fighting to defend?
Everyday, amateur gun enthusiast. Active duty, Army.
Read my gun blog!
November 29th, 2013 05:31 AM
Good question and thank you for your service btw. All I can say is if its legal its legal. The more its seen the less knee jerk reaction to it eventually there will be. It wasnt always like this and need not be now. Id suppose its up to how much hassle your willing to put up with. And what you are willing to be labled by some of your fellow gun owners.
Some will defend you right to legally OC a gun and stand on the right to keep and bear and the laws actually on the books. Not some twisted version of either acted on by overzealous officers of any agency. Others will call you a attention hog, especially if you carry a cell phone with a camera a video the hassles you endure for evidence if you need it and that your hurting the "cause".
Personally I fall in the first camp. But I dont have to deal with that sort of thing where I live.
Actually where I live it isnt like that. You can OC anything legal here and nobody pays any attention to it. No LE shows up. Nothing happens around here until something illegal actually happens concerning a gun. Hand or long. As it should be.
Be safe, Happy Thanksgiving.
" It is sad governments are chief'ed by the double tongues." quote Ten Bears Movie Outlaw Josie Wales
November 29th, 2013 05:33 AM
Heck, maybe I'll move to Kentucky!
Everyday, amateur gun enthusiast. Active duty, Army.
Read my gun blog!
November 29th, 2013 06:25 AM
Well OP from what I've learned 'bout Kaintuck since coming to DC that's sounding better ever dang day.
By and large I have no issue w/the OC crowd as you described them. OC is legal in WA where I am. Unfortunately liberals are thick as thieves here and always making MWAG calls cuz 90% act like little girls. ((**NO OFFENSE to the women/young ladies of DC**) I'm talking about the namby pamby crowd afraid of their own shadows.
I don't. Right or wrong I've always felt OC would put me at a tactical disadvantage so I CC and have for many years. But OP if this is your calling you got my blessing.
The 2A crowd (like us here at DC) need more guys in the trenches edumacating the non 2A public.
I say good on ya and a good idea to have a sharp as a tack 2A attorney on retainer AND speed dial.
I'm just a spoke in the wheel but not a big deal.
America...a Constitutional Republic. NOT a democracy as the liberals would have us believe.
Give me Liberty or give me BACON!!!
You know that look women give you when they want some sugar? Me neither
November 29th, 2013 06:48 AM
First, thanks for your service, and for your great attitude.
However, 'legality', being law-abiding is not where this 'battle' is being waged. It's about elitism, over-entitlement, attempting to create a society of privilege and classes, where one class can 'bully' the other.
Among creatures, humans, animals, birds and bees there exists a pecking order, a hierarchy, and a wish to dominate. We have terms like 'passive-aggressive', bully, hidden agenda, feigning ignorance. We create a special class and give them limited powers. At the same time we use this class to dominate for us, we hire 'enforcers' and seek to use collateral damage, covert operations, seek prohibited information to invade privacy.
Those of us who are intelligent and thoughtful realize that we do need a kind of class structure. We can't all be poor, pregnant and bare-foot, relying on the kindnesses of strangers. Somebody has to be the parent, someone the child, someone the adult. We need the middle class to prop up this nation of pusillanimous egomaniacs, sports stars who are babies, prissy movie stars, substance abusing politicians who are just a half-step above a Murder Incorporated.
It makes us feel good, as LAC and supporters of the 2A, the 4A to point at the nanny-staters and decry them as frauds and shysters, but we'd rather have the 'state' of all being equal under the law, a minimal law, a recognition that laws only work as well as the structure that is in place.
You have crooked, evil politicians, heads of LE who are only interested in their political gains, not elected but appointed in an area and guess what? Their minions will mirror this attitude. Some will protest but they'll be weeded out. Like cyber-criminals, the evil controllers are realizing the way to put individual freedom in jail, backed into a corner where they dare not act is through subtle and invasive and slippery-slope methods, like putting a frog in a pot of cold water, THEN heating it up. He'll jump out of a hot pot, but is goose is cooked slowly.
The answer is in exposing the bullying, the incomplete thought processes, the danger to everyone of letting people use failure to manage their neuroses, their anger, their hysteria, cloaking it in 'laws' to help us when we know their true agenda is to be 'king' and actually to reduce the slave population.
They want your DNA, your records, your weaknesses, and they'll be devious beyond belief, while wearing the most innocent of faces.
Can we 'wake up' the masses? I think it's happening. We have recall elections in Colorado. We have some LE declaring they won't enforce 'rules' that are against the constitution. We have juries nullifying judges.
The real truth is that if you empower all those around you, if you let the good people bring their A game to the table, we will all be elevated.
November 29th, 2013 06:51 AM
walked in to a walmart to buy ammo in northeast oregon with a buddy wearing his big 45 colt on his hip..........nothing happened. felt like sharing that.
It's December 1941 in Casablanca, what time is it in New York?
November 29th, 2013 07:05 AM
I am sorry but I disagree with the open carry of a long gun as one would with a handgun. It only serves to alarm people since it is not a normal sight. If the carrier can afford a long gun, they can afford a handgun. A person carrying a long gun is not doing so for self protection because they are not effctive in close combat. They are doing ti for show and to create a scene. I am as pro gun as anyone but that is asking for trouble.
As to police calls, it is common in OC states to inform callers about the legality of OC. However, a long gun such as AK or AR weapons MUST be responded when called in. It too is a legal issue. If the carrier happened to shoot someone or created a scene where someone was hurt, then the police agency could be sued for not responding. Unless the state just got OC, people are not going to notice an OC handgun or if they do, they will not pay it any attention. A long gun screams to others to notice the carrier and the gun.
That type of publicity is not needed by the pro gun group. Actually some areas have laws against the wanton carrying of long guns and if doing so anywhere causes a fear in a by=stander, then the carrier can be charged under nuiscence laws.
A 9mm might expand but a .45acp never shrinks.
"The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are now outnumbered by those who vote for a living."
November 29th, 2013 07:31 AM
I support open carry and hope more choose to do so even though I myself have elected not to. Maybe the World has beat me down a bit over the years (not necessarily a bad thing since I needed it in some respects) but I'm comfortable being a grey man and aspire to fade even more. I vote, lobby to convince friends, help newbies get their feet wet but I draw the line at strolling through the neighborhood with my ancient poodle and an SBR.
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power, than by violent and sudden usurpations” – James Madison 1788
November 29th, 2013 08:07 AM
I also disagree with the open carry of long gun unless it is a matter of necessity due to transportation or situation.
And my opinion is based on 2 facts. Rifles are known as offensive weapons, or something you use when you know there is going to be, or are looking to fight or engage.
Also, the spotlight on the rifle, as the instrument used in mass shootings unnecessarily stirs the pot in a negative way.
Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.
November 29th, 2013 09:51 AM
Not sure I'm following the logic here.
If you want to "educate the public" about the 2nd Amendment and so forth, there are many ways to accomplish that. You could write a letter to the editor of your local paper. Explain the situation to your fellow citizens. You could hold a public workshop, invite prominent speakers to draw a crowd. You could solicit funds from LGSs and similar and rent a billboard for a month. Might go on the radio and talk about it on-air with one of your local morning talk-show hosts.
There's a lot of ideas that occur to me, if public education is the goal here.
Grabbing one of my guns and going around shoving it in people's faces is probably the last idea that I would consider. That seems really vulgar, aggressive, and basically just stupid.
Now, if there's some particular reason you need to transport a firearm around, then you can put it in a case or bag and just as when going to the range you carry it around because you're taking it someplace it's needed. Like, the same way you'd carry a Skil-Saw to a construction site. Or the way you'd carry a hammer out to the shed. But you don't go to the supermarket with a circular saw in one hand and a hammer in the other, just because you can. Just to "educate the public."
It makes no sense at all. Unless, of course, you are a rancher in Wyoming or a rattlesnake hunter in Arizona or otherwise engaged in some activity in a place where people routinely carry and display firearms and such behavior is unextraordinary. Then that's OK.
"It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."
November 29th, 2013 10:01 AM
Nothing wrong with OC , just a few YouTube idiots making many others look bad. You can say the same for general firearms owners and YouTube videos as well. Educate, invite to the range and be polite , neatly dressed and we will win over more folks than a in your face attitude.
Thanks for your service OP.
"In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson
Nemo Me Impune Lacesset
November 29th, 2013 10:19 AM
I OC sometimes. Because I can and it's legal. I would never OC a long gun. I just don't see the need and don't have the desire. In Memphis proper, I CC because the MPD is uneducated on OC and doesn't care to learn. In the suburbs, where I live, I OC most of the time and it has never been an issue.
If Barbie is so popular, why do you have to buy her friends?
-- Steven Wright
1950 Colt .38 Police Positive Special
2013 SCCY 9mm CPX-2 Stainless Steel
US Army 1973-1977, 95B
November 29th, 2013 10:26 AM
November 29th, 2013 10:27 AM
I have no problem with OC. I think OC of a long gun is a bit unusual, but where legal I would still defend your rights to do so regardless of whether I would choose to do so or not. As far as getting MWAG calls for someone OC'ing, I think the caller needs to be told to go pound sand unless the action is aggressive, in which case it is not OC but brandishing, threatening, and assault.
November 29th, 2013 10:40 AM
Oh...the joy of living in a OC state where the right is respected. While in a few parts of the state (mostly NoVA) it may raise a few eyebrows. Here in the Richmond area hardly anyone bats an eye over it. Many mornings on my way to work I interact with LEO. We've talked and laughed and fought a few caliber wars. We've discussed pro's and con's of different brands/models of guns.
One morning as I was leaving the store I was at, one of the newer officers called out to me, and ask if he could have a word with me. I happened to be wearing my DW 1911 CBOB that day. When I ask him what I could do for him, he stated he noticed my gun, was considering the model and asked my impression of it. Spent about 20 minutes talking with him. Ran into him a few days later and he told me he had bought a Kimber instead. Stated he still wanted a CBOB, but due to the fact CZ had discontinued the model and finding one was next to impossible he got the Kimber to use "until" he found one.
Another time, same store. I was fixing my coffee. There were several LEO (who I knew by sight)getting coffee and talk. A foreign customer (NY/NJ accent) walked up and told the LEO "That man has a gun!". LEO looked over at me and told the person. "He certainly is...nice gun too."
Now, I'll admit, I'm not in my 20's, I don't wear my pants with the crotch around my knees and my underwear showing. I don't wear t shirts with obscenities on it or pictures of marijuana plants. I'm 60+, balding, gimpy (bad back/hip and knees) and usually wearing a cap with the Air Force seal on the front.
If I see someone OC'ing a handgun, it doesn't phase me. I go about my business and let them go about theirs. If I saw someone OC'ing a long gun....well that is a different story. IMO they are an attention whore. They are hoping for a confrontation. There is no place within 20 miles to shoot it outdoors. My normal reaction is to get out of the area ASAP. I definitely keep an eye on them until I can.
Freedom doesn't come free. It is bought and paid for by the lives and blood of our men and women in uniform.
NRA Life Member
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