Can vs Should: when Can turns bad

This is a discussion on Can vs Should: when Can turns bad within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Read this on a local news site: So, it's legal to carry a loaded gun into a Michigan school? | MLive.com Is this a case ...

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Thread: Can vs Should: when Can turns bad

  1. #1
    Ex Member Array DetChris's Avatar
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    Can vs Should: when Can turns bad

    Read this on a local news site:

    So, it's legal to carry a loaded gun into a Michigan school? | MLive.com

    Is this a case of "because I can" turned bad? OC, CC doesn't matter (in this case it's OC) Should we be a little smarter and judicious about our choices?

    Just like a guy walking into a black gospel church with a rebel battle flag shirt on just because the 1st amendment protects him. Or a guy making derogatory comments in a bad Asian accent while eating at a Chinese restaurant.

    Back to this story, it probably caused a lot of fence sitters to face palm and lean more towards the left, and solidifying gun free zones even more. Legal or not, the meter moved the wrong way.

    Not trying to stir the pot. Just like everything in life, sometimes common sense and good judgement can go a long way.

    Thoughts welcome.


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    Intentions are often different than the ones implied, and consequences are often (not-so) unintended.

    If I wanted to get an all-out gun ban, this would be a strategy I would employ.
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

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    VIP Member Array Badey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DetChris View Post
    Read this on a local news site:

    So, it's legal to carry a loaded gun into a Michigan school? | MLive.com

    Is this a case of "because I can" turned bad? OC, CC doesn't matter (in this case it's OC) Should we be a little smarter and judicious about our choices?

    Just like a guy walking into a black gospel church with a rebel battle flag shirt on just because the 1st amendment protects him. Or a guy making derogatory comments in a bad Asian accent while eating at a Chinese restaurant.

    Back to this story, it probably caused a lot of fence sitters to face palm and lean more towards the left, and solidifying gun free zones even more. Legal or not, the meter moved the wrong way.

    Not trying to stir the pot. Just like everything in life, sometimes common sense and good judgement can go a long way.

    Thoughts welcome.


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    This has happened several times in the past couple of years in MI. IMO, it can be a good thing or a bad thing, depending upon how it is done. I think it is good for people to see that guns can be carried into schools legally with no one getting hurt.

    I don't think this is anything like racism... It might be like the black student at UNC (I think) who was fighting for his right to fly the Confederate flag in his dorm because he wants people to see the history of the flag, not the hate it can portray.

    Can it have a negative impact, yes. Can it have a positive impact, yes. However, I am obviously biased in favor of expanding the 2A, so it may be more of a big deal to the antis and undecideds.
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    Though defensive violence will always be a sad necessity in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men -St. Augustine

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    Ex Member Array stylus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DetChris View Post
    Read this on a local news site:

    So, it's legal to carry a loaded gun into a Michigan school? | MLive.com

    Is this a case of "because I can" turned bad? OC, CC doesn't matter (in this case it's OC) Should we be a little smarter and judicious about our choices?

    Just like a guy walking into a black gospel church with a rebel battle flag shirt on just because the 1st amendment protects him. Or a guy making derogatory comments in a bad Asian accent while eating at a Chinese restaurant.

    Back to this story, it probably caused a lot of fence sitters to face palm and lean more towards the left, and solidifying gun free zones even more. Legal or not, the meter moved the wrong way.

    Not trying to stir the pot. Just like everything in life, sometimes common sense and good judgement can go a long way.

    Thoughts welcome.


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    The school was wrong for calling the cops, not the father for carrying. Gun-owning parents should quickly organize to OC when they pick up their children. Let the school see that these are all the normal people who have children in that school, not freaks or criminals. This should be don quickly before local legislators have political support to make schools a gun-free zone.

    The school should be sued for harassment and misuse of 911. The individual who actually placed the call should be suspended without pay for a few days.
    ccw9mm, Ianthin, Stoveman and 3 others like this.

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    Ex Member Array stylus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Intentions are often different than the ones implied, and consequences are often (not-so) unintended.

    If I wanted to get an all-out gun ban, this would be a strategy I would employ.
    Well then let's just go ahead and ban it, because if you can't use the right then what the hell is the point.
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    Ex Member Array DetChris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stylus View Post
    The school was wrong for calling the cops, not the father for carrying. Gun-owning parents should quickly organize to OC when they pick up their children. Let the school see that these are all the normal people who have children in that school, not freaks or criminals. This should be don quickly before local legislators have political support to make schools a gun-free zone.

    The school should be sued for harassment and misuse of 911. The individual who actually placed the call should be suspended without pay for a few days.
    This is actually a very good response. It will be great when enough parents buy into this mindset. But that takes more time and fence sitters converted.


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    Distinguished Member Array DingBat's Avatar
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    i see nothing fundamentally wrong with this.
    i agree it probably flared the fear machine unnecassarily.
    to me; our "sheeple" society needs all the "good" gun exposure it can get. my wife and i are still trying to decide the public/home/school/money/work/better education/anti-social thing for ourselves. THE most terrifying thing to me is that my kids will be effectively "trapped" in an unescapable prison controlled by the exact kind of people i fear most. it's been demonstrated now a few times that they become abattoir's when somebody breaks the rules. somebody ALWAYS breaks the rules. and it's only going to get worse. there are enough vets w/out jobs out there, it's my opinion you fire the "contractors" who installed the metal detectors, hired the rent-a-cops with OC spray and zip-ties, and basically gave us a good smoke-and-mirror show. then you hire a four man fire-team of experienced combat vets in full kit. somebody WILL ALWAYS find a way around a metal detector and a rent-a-cop. but with Marines on the ground there will never ever again be a large scale school shooting. THESE ARE GUYS WHO *ALREADY* RISKED THEIR LIVES FOR OUR COUNTRY!! you then take it a step further and have those same guys teach SD and firearm safety. suddenly our society gets a lot less naive and a lot more secure. funny that.
    instead? the next step will be the same full-body scanners they use in airports... mark my words.

    EDIT- i was a sophomore in Estes Park Colo. when Columbine happened. watched it live on the news in my english class.

  9. #8
    Ex Member Array DetChris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stylus View Post
    The school was wrong for calling the cops, not the father for carrying. Gun-owning parents should quickly organize to OC when they pick up their children. Let the school see that these are all the normal people who have children in that school, not freaks or criminals. This should be don quickly before local legislators have political support to make schools a gun-free zone.

    The school should be sued for harassment and misuse of 911. The individual who actually placed the call should be suspended without pay for a few days.
    I should add that the article specifically says that CPL holders in Michigan can OC in areas usually not permitted to non CPL holders, but any location can erect a "no guns" sign and that sign carries force of law (owner can press charges for trespassing, a misdemeanor but counts on the record as a gun crime). So the key is to persuade more companies and locations NOT to put up GFZ signs.


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    VIP Member Array OutWestSystems's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stylus View Post
    The school was wrong for calling the cops, not the father for carrying. Gun-owning parents should quickly organize to OC when they pick up their children. Let the school see that these are all the normal people who have children in that school, not freaks or criminals. This should be don quickly before local legislators have political support to make schools a gun-free zone.

    The school should be sued for harassment and misuse of 911. The individual who actually placed the call should be suspended without pay for a few days.
    Really? You think that is a good way for these people to become more "pro-gun". Many pro-gun folks hurt us more than than they help our cause. How exactly would that encourage more people to support us?

    What your idea would do is encourage more people in the state to post Gun Buster signs, how does that help us? In Michigan those signs carry the force of law.
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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Its legal to OC in a school as long as you have a CPL, in fact GFZs do not exist if you are willing to OC with your permit, but you must have your permit to do so. It is something they try to stop when they tried to pass the multi teared permit system.

    To me it is not worth it. Legal or not IMO I am not willing to test LE and other powers that be.....
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

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    Senior Member Array Mattmann's Avatar
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    Ex Member Array Bullet1234's Avatar
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    Totally agree,,,, sometimes pays to use your head for
    something other than a hat rack.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stylus View Post
    Well then let's just go ahead and ban it, because if you can't use the right then what the hell is the point.
    Did I say something untrue? Rubbing it in their faces won't make them like it, and will possibly persuade them to change it.
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    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
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    Ex Member Array stylus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OutWestSystems View Post
    Really? You think that is a good way for these people to become more "pro-gun".
    Yes, I think having lots of people OC is a good way to deal with this, and here's why I think that:
    One way psychiatrists deal with phobias is through desensitization —gradually introducing the afflicted to what they fear. We’ve all experienced this a bit when we take a nervous novice shooting. They come with a full bottle of fears, which dissipate as they learn the shooting skills. The worst hoplophobes won’t go near a range; but that deep-seated fear is dispelled by those who do.
    Can ?Hoplophobia? Be Cured? | American Handgunner
    Desensitization through exposure to the feared object. Hiding will only make hoplophobes worse. We need to come out of the closet, be visable, be peaceful and perfectly normal.

    Quote Originally Posted by OutWestSystems View Post
    Many pro-gun folks hurt us more than than they help our cause.
    Did this father actually do anything illegal? Was he trying to get attention, was this even a publicity stunt? Was he violating the 3StupidRule by going to stupid places (his child's school) with stupid people (his doughtier) and doing stupid things (picking her up)? You should be able to pick your kid up from school and no one bat an eye at an OC gun. It should not catch any more attention than a cell phone on a belt clip.

    Quote Originally Posted by OutWestSystems View Post
    What your idea would do is encourage more people in the state to post Gun Buster signs...
    Please link to your source material supporting this claim.
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