OC Lawsuit

This is a discussion on OC Lawsuit within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I couldn't remember what thread it was that was talking about the grand rapids OC but here is the video See video of open-carry gun ...

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Thread: OC Lawsuit

  1. #1
    Member Array panda15's Avatar
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    OC Lawsuit

    I couldn't remember what thread it was that was talking about the grand rapids OC but here is the video

    See video of open-carry gun advocate's confrontation with Grand Rapids Police that sparked lawsuit | MLive.com
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    Distinguished Member Array Glock2201's Avatar
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    I hope it is not against the law to talk to yourself. if it is I am surprised I am not in jail especially with some of the harsh names I call myself after I break something.

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    Ex Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Good Grief, I could not stand to listen to the Officers any longer. I hope he gets a fat check out of this....
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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    To paraphrase: "Okay, you have a lawful right to open carry a firearm, but you've got to understand we have a duty to ensure ..." State law acknowledges OC of a loaded firearm is lawful. Yet being forcibly taken down and detained for mere visibility is kosher, apparently, for nothing other than the visibility and some bare-fear MWAG call having been made.

    Sounds ripe for a successfully lawsuit against such crap, to me.
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    VIP Member Array WrongRecroom's Avatar
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    Things not to say to a cop " It’s illegal for you to stop me for it in the state of Michigan,” Deffert is heard saying in the recording."

    Also a lot of people talk to themselves .. It when they start answering that you worry(TM)....
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    VIP Member Array OutWestSystems's Avatar
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    People need to realize the police have the right to stop and talk to you. They don't have the right to detain you or search you but they can still talk to you. That is what happened in this case. They stopped to talk to him because they received a call. They were doing their job.
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    VIP Member Array OutWestSystems's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WrongRecroom View Post
    Things not to say to a cop " It’s illegal for you to stop me for it in the state of Michigan,” Deffert is heard saying in the recording."

    Also a lot of people talk to themselves .. It when they start answering that you worry(TM)....
    And it is perfectly legal for them to stop you, it is illegal for them to detain you.

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    Member Array grbr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OutWestSystems View Post
    People need to realize the police have the right to stop and talk to you. They don't have the right to detain you or search you but they can still talk to you. That is what happened in this case. They stopped to talk to him because they received a call. They were doing their job.
    The officer approached him gun drawn while ordering him to the ground. That's not exactly stopping to talk because of a call.

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    Senior Member Array 19Kvet's Avatar
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    They can stop me long enough for me to ask them if I'm being detained. Then they have to detain me or let me be. If they're detaining me, they need a valid reason. How much did the OCer in Ft. Collins get paid for his detainment?
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    Member Array grbr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OutWestSystems View Post
    And it is perfectly legal for them to stop you, it is illegal for them to detain you.
    Actually, it depends on your definition of a "stop". If you're using the legal definition of a terry stop...then actually it's not legal for them to do that in MI, court precedent and everything.

    If you just mean the police are physically allowed to stop moving and speak...then yah, you're right. But it is not an actual "stop" and you don't even have to acknowledge they are stopping or talking in MI if all they are doing is asking because you're OC'ing, you can just act like they aren't there and walk away. Of course, if it turns out they did have some reasonable suspicion (MI courts have ruled OC is NOT reasonable suspicion though) then you're gonna get tackled...and even if they don't you might get tackled anyway...but you'd win the court case later, because it's been outright ruled that terry stops for OC are NOT legal in MI.

    This case hinges on the officer claiming that the guy talking to himself was the reasonable suspicion and therefore the stop was legal. Without that this case is 100% signed sealed and delivered: no terry stops in MI for OC.
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    VIP Member Array 40Bob's Avatar
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    I have no problem with the officer stopping him to ascertain his motives. I have a problem with the the tactics the officer used. OC being legal and he prones the guy out when the gun is obviously holstered. That, to me is a clear case of misconduct.
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    VIP Member Array NONAME762's Avatar
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    It's threads just like this one why I REFUSE TO OC.
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    Member Array american23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by panda15 View Post
    I couldn't remember what thread it was that was talking about the grand rapids OC but here is the video

    See video of open-carry gun advocate's confrontation with Grand Rapids Police that sparked lawsuit | MLive.com
    Legality of suing an anti over 911 harassment?

    It was my thread. Thanks for the link.

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    Member Array american23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by panda15 View Post
    I couldn't remember what thread it was that was talking about the grand rapids OC but here is the video

    See video of open-carry gun advocate's confrontation with Grand Rapids Police that sparked lawsuit | MLive.com
    I just watched it and did the police officer seriously just say "i gotta make sure if you're not a felon?"...SERIOUSLY? He isn't allowed to own firearms if he's a felon, so obviously he wouldn't open carry it if he was a felon, you knucklehead. I swear, that police officer...omfg SMH.
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    Member Array american23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OutWestSystems View Post
    People need to realize the police have the right to stop and talk to you. They don't have the right to detain you or search you but they can still talk to you. That is what happened in this case. They stopped to talk to him because they received a call. They were doing their job.
    They were NOT doing their job...they were blatantly harassing someone who had just gone out to breakfast and was enjoying a morning walk. The dispatcher even notifed the person who called in that it was perfectly legal to OC. The caller then said "oh well I think he's acting suspicious, send someone to check him out"(paraphrasing). The caller:

    A.) Knew what he was doing was legal
    B.) Then lied by saying he was doing something suspicious

    What she did was the equivalent of reporting a domestic disturbance, then saying that "she thought she heard a gunshot" to get police officers to arrive faster. She misused the emergency call system to pursue a personal vendetta against a gun owner, and she also made a false 911 call on the victim in question. She should've spent the night in jail and been charged with committing two crimes.


    The only right the police officer had was to check his carry permit (depending on the carry law)...that was it.

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