Grand Rapids, MI Mayor: "Guns Make Us Less Safe"

This is a discussion on Grand Rapids, MI Mayor: "Guns Make Us Less Safe" within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; "Prompted by more school shootings and a local open-carrier’s desensitization trainings, Mayor George Heartwell criticized Congress for being too lax on guns ...Here’s the statement ...

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Thread: Grand Rapids, MI Mayor: "Guns Make Us Less Safe"

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array Caertaker's Avatar
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    Grand Rapids, MI Mayor: "Guns Make Us Less Safe"

    "Prompted by more school shootings and a local open-carrier’s desensitization trainings, Mayor George Heartwell criticized Congress for being too lax on guns ...Here’s the statement Heartwell read at this morning’s City Commission meeting:" Grand Rapids Mayor George Heartwell to gun-control advocates: 'Arm yourselves with righteousness' | MLive.com

    • "I sit in our City Commission meeting week after week anxious and frightened because a civilian with a gun is in this chamber. I know that he can kill me, and probably others at this table or in these chambers, before the police officer in the rear of the room can react. Carrying a gun always, always represents the threat to use that gun to kill or maim another. That, after all, is why these people carry their guns.

      Now the gun advocates want to “desensitize” the community to open carry. The more guns we see, they say, the less we will fear them or the people carrying them. Well, I will never be desensitized and God help us all if society accepts those bullying tactics as the norm.

      I urge all citizens who feel as I do to take action. Arm yourselves with the righteousness of our position. If you see an armed person come into a store or restaurant, alert others and leave the establishment. If you see an armed person in a shopping mall or movie theatre, alert security and leave the building. If you see an armed person approaching a school, call the police."



    Although I choose not to open carry, seems like the least I can do is thank those who do - on sight. Heck, maybe if I'm feeling generous, I'll buy their lunch if I see them in a restaurant... provided of course that there's not too many... and if they're not too large... Thoughts? Comments?
    "I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power, than by violent and sudden usurpations” – James Madison 1788

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Array NickBurkhardt's Avatar
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    Take him to Detroit

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    Ex Member Array Gearhead's Avatar
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    If this trembling pantywaste is convinced that he is less safe around guns, then perhaps he would be willing to forego any protective security details that he uses as mayor.

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    Not interested in infraction points or being banned, so I'll keep my thoughts to myself.
    Freedom doesn't come free. It is bought and paid for by the lives and blood of our men and women in uniform.

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  6. #5
    Ex Member Array DetChris's Avatar
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    He's the minority in our state. We're getting more pro gun by the minute.

    I'm glad I don't live in Grand Rapids.


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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by From the Mayor's own mouth
    "I sit in our City Commission meeting week after week anxious and frightened because a civilian with a gun is in this chamber. I know that he can kill me, and probably others at this table or in these chambers, before the police officer in the rear of the room can react."
    So can any person who carries something sharp and pointy, something heavy, something potentially lethal. So long as the person is a murderer, that is.


    Quote Originally Posted by From the Mayor's own mouth
    "Carrying a gun always, always represents the threat to use that gun to kill or maim another. That, after all, is why these people carry their guns."
    False. Doesn't always. It merely represents the capability of a person to employ that tool. Only a very small percentage of people who have a capability turn out to be murderous. And until they act, normal people are no more a murderous threat than someone carrying any other means of defense. Only those who deign to turn such tools upon others unjustifiably are threats. And that's far less likely to be the case than "always."


    Quote Originally Posted by From the Mayor's own mouth
    "Now the gun advocates want to 'desensitize' the community to open carry. The more guns we see, they say, the less we will fear them or the people carrying them. Well, I will never be desensitized ..."
    Yes, it's human nature to eventually realize that when threats don't exist then they don't exist. Only when they do actually exist (as in the form of a murderous person in our midst, by virtue of that person having been identified via his actions) does it behoove us to remove that person from our midst via due process of law.

    Lawn mowers are scary, sure. Noisy, sharp, "threatening" to tear off the feet of anyone near them. But they're merely tools, and only threatening to others when poorly (or murderously) used. Same with chainsaws, screw drivers, high-performance automobiles, kitchen knives ... and, yes, defensive firearms.

    ONLY those who determine to misuse such tools against others become a threat. All the rest are, by definition, not a threat. At best, they only represent potential. And that's because they're all human, not merely because they are seen to have this or that tool with them.


    Quote Originally Posted by From the Mayor's own mouth
    "... and God help us all if society accepts those bullying tactics as the norm."
    Hm. Recognizing that, under an upraised knife, one who has the practical means of withstanding such violence perpetrated against him trumps having no means whatsoever ... that's a "bullying" tactic, attempting to get other humans to see reality? It takes all sorts, I guess.

    Light reading, to get a clue: Why The Gun Is Civilization, by Marko Kloos.


    Quote Originally Posted by From the Mayor's own mouth
    "I urge all citizens who feel as I do to take action. Arm yourselves with the righteousness of our position."
    In a violent situation of crime against us, hope is not a plan. Neither is fear.

    Having practical means, though, is a plan.

    Hard to call "righteous" the former while ignoring the simple truth of the latter.


    Quote Originally Posted by From the Mayor's own mouth
    "If you see an armed person come into a store or restaurant, alert others and leave the establishment. If you see an armed person in a shopping mall or movie theatre, alert security and leave the building. If you see an armed person approaching a school, call the police."
    And what about the millions of other citizens who aren't seen, but who are armed in their own defense nonetheless? Fear them as well?

    Or, just fear those who show themselves to be violently felonious, once they show it? THOSE, truly, are the only ones we need stand up to as a society. Frankly, though, it gets pretty hard to stand up to them on the instant they are rampaging without the means of doing so. Hence, the practical value of an armed citizenry.


    It's pretty simple:
    • If violently attacked, have no means whatsoever of withstanding it.
    • If violently attacked, have all means at your disposal of raising the chances of surviving it.


    Pick one, 'cause one choice is all you're going to get.

    Oliver Wendell Holmes recognized the simple truth of what's required for survival "under an upraised knife." Can't very well do that without the means of surviving. Hard to do that without an effective tool, effective skills. Without those things, we're truly at the mercy of the criminally violent predators who exist. Wishing they didn't exist won't make them disappear. Standing up to each and every one until they're erased will.
    Last edited by ccw9mm; January 29th, 2014 at 02:25 PM. Reason: spacing for clarity
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

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    Distinguished Member Array Jaeger's Avatar
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    That was great NickBurkhardt!
    “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive." C.S. Lewis

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    Senior Member Array CIBMike's Avatar
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    He is a moron .I can tell by his speech that he probably doesn't even understand the gun laws in his state and probably doesn't care to.
    He is worrying about legally carried guns while drugs and crime wreak his city.
    The easy way is always mined.

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    VIP Member Array tdave's Avatar
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    He knows that if people accept that it is their right and responsibility to protect them and theirs that no one will buy into his nanny state con. This is what terrifies him a lack of access to your money and a lack of infringement on your freedom.

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    VIP Member Array maxwell97's Avatar
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    Another great illustration of the anti mindset. "Average people are evil, corrupt, moronic, and if they have power, will use it in the worst possible way. The only way we can be safe is to disarm all these potential murderers."

    Somehow, though, he fails to grasp that the police officer in the room is just as capable of killing him. Why is he not frightened of THAT gun? Doesn't THAT represent a "threat to kill or maim another?"
    "Yet this government never of itself furthered any enterprise, but by the alacrity with which it got out of the way... The character inherent in the American people has done all that has been accomplished; and it would have done somewhat more, if the government had not sometimes got in its way."

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    Distinguished Member Array RightsEroding's Avatar
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    Look at it this way...

    Without unthinking silly, illogical, knee jerk reactors seeking to advance a socialist agenda; there would be no need for forums like or similar to this one.

    The negative aspect in responding to such people (elected officials) is that the letters written are eventually destroyed thereby contributing to global warming and adding fuel to the fire for people
    of similar mindset of Al Gore; our internet inventor.

    Now sir, many of course no longer lick stamps so we email via our computers. The greater the rights controversy; the greater the need for more computers to complain, join forums and blog our heads clean off.
    This gives the NSA reason to approach the appropriation committees seeking more funding to spy on Americans.

    The increased funding to to the NSA causes our taxes to rise thereby leaving you and I far less discretionary cash to purchase firearms. (I smell a conspiracy)

    The added computers by Americans and the NSA also add to the climate footprint. As the temps rise, so does the subject of firearms operation in hot & humid climates causing gun manufacturers to produce more reliable weapons in response to such climactic conditions.

    As these new more reliable weapons are produced, the gun controversies continue unabated.

    Insert Sarcasm Here:

    The above analysis is equal to if not surpassing the lunacy of elected officials who proceed from a point of "small brain syndrome."
    "When those who are governed do too little, those who govern can, and will, do too much." Ronald Reagan

    Do what you can; then do what you must

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    Distinguished Member Array Doghandler's Avatar
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    FDR said it best, "... the only thing we have to fear is, fear itself.... "
    There is a solution but we are not Jedi... not yet.
    Doghandler

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    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    "Guns make us less safe"...that's why the people hired to keep govt officials safe carry guns. FAIL.
    Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
    No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.


    Guns are like sex and air...its no big deal until YOU can't get any.

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    Member Array deaconswife's Avatar
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    Go get'm Gearhead. I agree wholeheartedly.
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    Guns do make us less safe--when you don't have one and the BG does!
    BugDude, Wolf357 and Aceoky like this.
    Retired USAF E-8. Remember: You're being watched!
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

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