Nra/ila support & criticism

Nra/ila support & criticism

This is a discussion on Nra/ila support & criticism within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Ok fine; most of us approve of what the NRA/ILA does; most of the time. Though I support them financially; I wrote them a letter ...

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Thread: Nra/ila support & criticism

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array RightsEroding's Avatar
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    Nra/ila support & criticism

    Ok fine; most of us approve of what the NRA/ILA does; most of the time.

    Though I support them financially; I wrote them a letter indicating their game needs some tune up.

    Political errors can rarely be UN-done. Let's face it, the NRA/ILA compete heavily in the political arena.

    1) Choosing a "force of law" gun free venue for their 2015 Annual Meeting? Just plain stupid politically.
    It won't be long before 2A adversaries seize the contradiction.

    2) The "unidentified" author from the NRA/ILA webpage "Good Citizens and Good Neighbors: The Gun Owners' Role" article.

    but a small number have recently crossed the line from enthusiasm to downright foolishness.
    Foolishness?
    Yet some so-called firearm advocates seem determined to change this.
    So Called?
    it's downright weird
    Weird?
    it can be downright scary
    Scary?

    Yep; I'm grinding my teeth on this one.

    The NRA's own words have already begun to be used against them. They have placed themselves at odds with "Open Carry Texas".

    Choosing a gun free venue for the annual meeting? More canon fodder for the liberal media!

    The NRA/ILA blew it with these two issues and should be called out on it by it's members

    Firearm owners face enough challenges these days; we don't need to be victims of friendly fire.
    Nor do we need to be victims of dissension among the ranks.

    IMO, the NRA/ILA should never have called out Open Carry Texas group in the fashion they did; and they certainly never should have chosen a GUN FREE venue for it's 2015 Annual Meeting.

    Politically they blew this one!
    "When those who are governed do too little, those who govern can, and will, do too much." Ronald Reagan

    Do what you can; then do what you must


  2. #2
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    I agree they are tripping all over themselves. I am still fuming about the gun free venue in Nashville for next year's convention, and I have let them know that in no uncertain terms. The contradiction between their public persona and their actions is unacceptable. Actions like this may end up losing more members than they might otherwise gain.
    "The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." Alexander Hamilton

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    VIP Member Array maxwell97's Avatar
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    I have no opinion on point 1, but I have to disagree on point 2. Here's a copy of the section in question:

    "Recently, demonstrators have been showing up in various public places, including coffee shops and fast food restaurants, openly toting a variety of tactical long guns. Unlicensed open carry of handguns is legal in about half the U.S. states, and it is relatively common and uncontroversial in some places.*

    Yet while unlicensed open carry of long guns is also typically legal in most places, it is a rare sight to see someone sidle up next to you in line for lunch with a 7.62 rifle slung across his chest, much less a whole gaggle of folks descending on the same public venue with similar arms.*

    Let's not mince words, not only is it rare, it's downright weird and certainly not a practical way to go normally about your business while being prepared to defend yourself. To those who are not acquainted with the dubious practice of using public displays of firearms as a means to draw attention to oneself or one's cause, it can be downright scary.* It makes folks who might normally be perfectly open-minded about firearms feel uncomfortable and question the motives of pro-gun advocates.

    As a result of these hijinx, two popular fast food outlets have recently requested patrons to keep guns off the premises (more information can be found here and here).* In other words, the freedom and goodwill these businesses had previously extended to gun owners has been curtailed because of the actions of an attention-hungry few who thought only of themselves and not of those who might be affected by their behavior. To state the obvious, that's counterproductive for the gun owning community.

    More to the point, it's just not neighborly, which is out of character for the big-hearted residents of Texas. Using guns merely to draw attention to yourself in public not only defies common sense, it shows a lack of consideration and manners.* That's not the Texas way.* And that's certainly not the NRA way.

    In summary, NRA certainly does not support bans... on carrying firearms in public, including in restaurants.* We think people are intelligent enough to resolve these issues in a reasonable way for themselves. But when people act without thinking, or without consideration for others – especially when it comes to firearms – they set the stage for further restrictions on our rights. Firearm owners face enough challenges these days; we don't need to be victims of friendly fire."


    Now, it may be unfair to characterize the rifle guys as thinking "only of themselves." I think they probably have good intentions. Otherwise, I agree with every single point made here, and if I write any letters, it will be to thank them for putting this up.
    "Yet this government never of itself furthered any enterprise, but by the alacrity with which it got out of the way... The character inherent in the American people has done all that has been accomplished; and it would have done somewhat more, if the government had not sometimes got in its way."

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    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    My opinion;
    Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

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    Senior Member Array Gaius's Avatar
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    The NRA is, in my opinion, completely correct in criticizing the open carry guys in Texas. What some people really do not understand, is that all of this talk about "inalienable rights" and God given rights etc is only useful in so far as the majority of the people agree to it. I know how this sounds, but that's the reality of living in a political world. (Not sure? Read some history.) If we, and I mean we collectively, irritate enough of our fellow citizens by flaunting our "right" to scare the hell out of them do not be surprised when this "right" goes away. But we have the Second Amendment! Really? in case you haven't noticed, there is already a movement, headed by a former US Supreme Court Justice to repeal or amend that Amendment. Think it can't happen? Go ahead, piss off and/or scare enough of our fellow citizens and see what happens.

    Flame suit on.
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    Distinguished Member Array RightsEroding's Avatar
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    Yep...zzzzzzzzzzzz is right!

    They should have stood mute on this one.

    I guess some people are afraid to be critical of ANYTHING the NRA does; I am not.

    Fight for my rights; I'm good. Tell me HOW to exercise those rights; NOT cool.

    Cleaning up the original verbiage....."100 ataboys are cancelled by ONE (oh rats)"
    "When those who are governed do too little, those who govern can, and will, do too much." Ronald Reagan

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    Quote Originally Posted by maxwell97 View Post
    Now, it may be unfair to characterize the rifle guys as thinking "only of themselves." I think they probably have good intentions. Otherwise, I agree with every single point made here, and if I write any letters, it will be to thank them for putting this up.
    Their good intentions also set back the rights of gun owners who frequent those restaurants. Why people want to involve corporations in the 2A debate is beyond me.

    I still don't see how open carry of a rifle, which was already legal in Texas helps promote open carry of handguns, which is what that organization was fighting for.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the outcome of the vote." ~ Benjamin Franklin

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    VIP Member Array maxwell97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    The NRA is, in my opinion, completely correct in criticizing the open carry guys in Texas. What some people really do not understand, is that all of this talk about "inalienable rights" and God given rights etc is only useful in so far as the majority of the people agree to it. I know how this sounds, but that's the reality of living in a political world. (Not sure? Read some history.) If we, and I mean we collectively, irritate enough of our fellow citizens by flaunting our "right" to scare the hell out of them do not be surprised when this "right" goes away. But we have the Second Amendment! Really? in case you haven't noticed, there is already a movement, headed by a former US Supreme Court Justice to repeal or amend that Amendment. Think it can't happen? Go ahead, piss off and/or scare enough of our fellow citizens and see what happens.

    Flame suit on.
    Heck, I agree. There's a difference between having a right and having legal recognition of a right. Everybody in the world has the right to keep and bear arms, but in only a few places is that right recognized and protected. It requires a considered approach to make sure that it continues to be protected.
    "Yet this government never of itself furthered any enterprise, but by the alacrity with which it got out of the way... The character inherent in the American people has done all that has been accomplished; and it would have done somewhat more, if the government had not sometimes got in its way."

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    VIP Member Array Aceoky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spclopr8tr View Post
    I agree they are tripping all over themselves. I am still fuming about the gun free venue in Nashville for next year's convention, and I have let them know that in no uncertain terms. The contradiction between their public persona and their actions is unacceptable. Actions like this may end up losing more members than they might otherwise gain.
    Seems the Only reason it's gun free is the person in control has (or will?) posted the property - they can take the signs down or the NRA should change the location (not far N is Bowling Green KY for crying out loud) I can see Bloomy's groups getting this and running with it - I'm not sure IF the property was (or even is now) posted or they just plan on posting for the NRA event???

    Either way the signs go OR the NRA should refuse to hold it there IMHO
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  10. #10
    Distinguished Member Array RightsEroding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    If we, and I mean we collectively, irritate enough of our fellow citizens by flaunting our "right" to scare the hell out of them do not be surprised when this "right" goes away.
    Then be prepared for the liberal anti gun congressman and senators in their next round of more restrictions as they cite the NRA!

    I can hear it now.."Mr. Chairman, even the NRA/ILA concedes open carrying is "scary" and foolish"

    No, never mind what the truth is here, the libs do not care about the truth as they live and sell sound bites to the American masses, provided by
    the most powerful lobby force, the NRA.
    "When those who are governed do too little, those who govern can, and will, do too much." Ronald Reagan

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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    My opinion;
    Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
    One of the problems I find with many debates is that people tend to use entirely too many words to express points of minimal importance. You, I believe, may have found a solution; simply repeat one letter over and over, and then repeat again as necessary or appropriate. Your opinion gets expressed, and is universally understood.
    gatorbait51 likes this.
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    VIP Member Array maxwell97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RightsEroding View Post
    Yep...zzzzzzzzzzzz is right!

    They should have stood mute on this one.

    I guess some people are afraid to be critical of ANYTHING the NRA does; I am not.

    Fight for my rights; I'm good. Tell me HOW to exercise those rights; NOT cool.

    Cleaning up the original verbiage....."100 ataboys are cancelled by ONE (oh rats)"
    To repeat myself, there's a difference between having a right and having legal recognition of the right. The right is universal. The people of England and Iran have as much right to arms as anybody, and when Hideyoshi seized the swords and spears of Japan's peasants in 1590, it was a violation of human rights, just as it would be to seize AR-15's in the US.

    But winning legal recognition of gun rights (as with any right) is an entirely different matter. In the US, it happened the only way it could have, the Revolutionary War. To win legal recognition of their rights, a great many Americans had to face the ultimate violation of their rights - being killed by musket balls or slashed up with sabers. It sure didn't end there, either. It's sad and it's unfair, but maintaining life and freedom has always meant being willing to lose life and freedom.

    So, I don't think it's all that unreasonable to ask that supporters of gun rights make the very modest accommodation of NOT carrying long guns into a Chili's or Chipotle, in the interest of furthering the cause. Consider it a tactical withdrawal in the arena of democracy instead of on the field of battle, and be glad that it's soccer moms and college profs we're facing rather than redcoats and Maoists.

    The NRA is most definitely not questioning your right to carry these rifles into a restaurant. They're simply stating what, at this point, should be obvious: that it is making legal recognition of the right more difficult to maintain.
    gatorbait51, falcon1 and CWOUSCG like this.
    "Yet this government never of itself furthered any enterprise, but by the alacrity with which it got out of the way... The character inherent in the American people has done all that has been accomplished; and it would have done somewhat more, if the government had not sometimes got in its way."

  13. #13
    Senior Member Array Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RightsEroding View Post
    I can hear it now.."Mr. Chairman, even the NRA/ILA concedes open carrying is "scary" and foolish"
    And the NRA would be right. A lot of people, liberal and conservative, are frightened by the open display of long guns. And some still don't get it. If enough people, rightfully or wrongfully are scared by the open carrying of guns, especially long guns, don't be surprised if that "right" goes away. So stop rubbing everyone's nose in this. Any business, if it has any sense, that thinks its customers are not comfortable, if not downright scared, to go into the business because of some goofs open carrying AKs and ARs, will ban them. I would do the same.
    Best way to win a gun fight? "That's easy, don't show up."
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  14. #14
    TRX
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    If I saw anyone walking around with a rifle, that didn't have a uniform and a marked police car nearby, my response would be "airsoft mall ninja" until something happened to prove otherwise.

    "Oooohhh, Ah'm a-skeered!" Baloney.
    NONAME762 likes this.

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    Pick your battles.
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