OC + weapon security fail = dead

OC + weapon security fail = dead

This is a discussion on OC + weapon security fail = dead within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Story is a good reminder that OC can be a magnet to criminals and make you a target of an assault. Most non-police style holsters ...

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Thread: OC + weapon security fail = dead

  1. #1
    Member Array LtBlue425's Avatar
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    OC + weapon security fail = dead

    Story is a good reminder that OC can be a magnet to criminals and make you a target of an assault. Most non-police style holsters are easy targets for pistol snatchers. That's why police use security holsters. I know some guys will say "I'll kick their butts if they try to take my gun". Well, read this news story.
    Teen homicide suspects have criminal histories - Richmond Times-Dispatch: Richmond News, Crime & Politics
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    VIP Member Array Ghost1958's Avatar
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    Well we now have two cases of OC where a gun was taken. From what I can glean from the article the BG reached for the carriers gun and the carrier didnt go ahead with drawing and firing it. He lost it in a struggle. If, and nobody ever has in 49 years of carrying alot OC as well as CC, some thug tries to get my gun I have to assume he means to shoot me with it. If Im reading this article correctly the carrier had a chance to draw and fire his weapon. He should have.

    Condolences to OCers family.
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    Am I doing this math right? The first kid is 16, and had his first conviction in 2010 (12 years old), and the second kid, also 16, had his first conviction in 2007 (9 years old)? And both of those initial convictions included malicious wounding. Wow.

    Richmond Assistant Commonwealth's Attorney Andy Johnson is quoted as saying "Our goal is to try to get through to these kids before they become adults so we don't automatically lock them up every time they do something wrong." Sir: IT'S NOT WORKING. You're not getting through to them. Go ahead and start locking them up every time they do something wrong. You should only have to lock them up once - for a very very long time.

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    Sad for the deceased parties. Wrong guys ended up shot. Bit of an eye opener, as Ghost said, 2 verifiable cases where open carry resulted in targeting. I hate that. I just got back from my nightly walk, Open carrying ( I often open carry during my night walks but I don't let anyone near me and I walk in the street when there is growth or fencing that would allow and ambush). I always carry concealed where there are a lot of people about. But late night walks or in the woods- I don't bother.
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    VIP Member Array Phaedrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost1958 View Post
    Well we now have two cases of OC where a gun was taken. From what I can glean from the article the BG reached for the carriers gun and the carrier didnt go ahead with drawing and firing it. The lost it in a struggle. If, and nobody ever has in 49 years of carrying alot OC as well as CC, some thug tries to get my gun I have to assume he means to shoot me with it. If Im reading this article correctly the carrier had a chance to draw and fire his weapon. He should have.

    Condolences to OCers family.
    +1. An attempt to grab your gun is justification to draw and shoot. That's the law many places; certainly if you go for a cop's gun that's how it will be viewed. If you're not prepared to kill someone trying to get your gun, for God's sake don't OC.
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    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Do we post where CC holders are also shot & killed, and weren't successful in stopping an attack ? After , even Trayvon Martin was after George Zimmermans' "concealed" gun and trying to take it away from him. I can point out where the Security Officer just the other day , gave up his gun because a guy had a knife..... and was threatening people.... then shot and killed an officer when they arrived. Or, I can point out a couple where police officers had a "struggle" and during it, their guns were taken and they were shot and killed.

    So, you don't have to be carrying OC for it to happen. I think most times any gun is taken, is because the person with the gun.... was hesitant to use force, when maybe they shouldn't have been.

    Hate to say it this way, but ...... two cases of someone having their gun taken and shot, no matter how they were carrying it..... doesn't make a case for anything one direction or the other. There are also too many factors we don't know.
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    News flash people, a thug looking for a gun to steal knows what those little leather loops and metal clips on your waistband are for. You are no safer from a blindside attack than a OC'er is and in a fight that you see coming OC is way faster to the draw, for day in and day out work carry I open carry for simple comfort and ease of use, if im going out for the night shopping, eating, movies, etc. I will move IWB when i cant control how close i'm going to be to others

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gimme_Coffee View Post
    Am I doing this math right? The first kid is 16, and had his first conviction in 2010 (12 years old), and the second kid, also 16, had his first conviction in 2007 (9 years old)? And both of those initial convictions included malicious wounding. Wow.

    Richmond Assistant Commonwealth's Attorney Andy Johnson is quoted as saying "Our goal is to try to get through to these kids before they become adults so we don't automatically lock them up every time they do something wrong." Sir: IT'S NOT WORKING. You're not getting through to them. Go ahead and start locking them up every time they do something wrong. You should only have to lock them up once - for a very very long time.
    The story is from 2012, so I think your math is a bit off.
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    Tragic that the man lost his life, but no where in the article does it state he was "targeted" because he was OC'ing. It happened at night, it was dark outside and they picked their victim. They probably had no idea he was armed until the scuffle started.

    BTW, if you look at the date line on the article. It took place in December of 2011.
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    Quote Originally Posted by subhuman View Post
    News flash people, a thug looking for a gun to steal knows what those little leather loops and metal clips on your waistband are for. You are no safer from a blindside attack than a OC'er is and in a fight that you see coming OC is way faster to the draw, for day in and day out work carry I open carry for simple comfort and ease of use, if im going out for the night shopping, eating, movies, etc. I will move IWB when i cant control how close i'm going to be to others
    True. But they don't know what is in your pocket, other than your hand!
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    BTW, if you look at the date line on the article. It took place in December of 2011.
    How is that relevant?
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    Quote Originally Posted by subhuman View Post
    News flash people, a thug looking for a gun to steal knows what those little leather loops and metal clips on your waistband are for.
    You give most criminals I have met way too much credit.
    My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    Tragic that the man lost his life, but no where in the article does it state he was "targeted" because he was OC'ing. It happened at night, it was dark outside and they picked their victim. They probably had no idea he was armed until the scuffle started.

    BTW, if you look at the date line on the article. It took place in December of 2011.
    Um...

    'Tyler, a customer at the BP station, was killed about 8:15 p.m. Friday, Nov. 25, inside the store. According to court papers, Smith and Hamiel arrived at the BP together on a single scooter and followed Tyler into the store.
    Tyler, 48, had a concealed-carry permit, but his handgun was plainly visible that night in his holster, Johnson said.
    "The suspects walk in and one immediately reached for Mr. Tyler's gun," Johnson said. Tyler did not draw his weapon.'

    Sounds like they knew pretty darned well he had a gun, and went straight for it.

    Many people choose to OC, and that's fine. Unfortunately many of these people - based on a number of threads I've observed here - also delude themselves into thinking there's no downside to it. Point out the cases of LEO's being targeted to get their guns, and they'll say "that never happens to non-LEO's."

    Well, here's a case that proves the obvious - that a visible handgun deters some BG's, and offers a tempting target to others. There are trade-offs in every choice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxwell97 View Post

    Sounds like they knew pretty darned well he had a gun, and went straight for it.

    Many people choose to OC, and that's fine. Unfortunately many of these people - based on a number of threads I've observed here - also delude themselves into thinking there's no downside to it. Point out the cases of LEO's being targeted to get their guns, and they'll say "that never happens to non-LEO's."
    How many times have we heard something like.... " The presence of my gun and my manly scowl will let them know I am one mean hombre"..........
    My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon.

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    I really wish these "news" articles would post a timeline of the events they are reporting and get the facts right.

    These two statements contradict one another:

    Toby Smith Jr. is accused of stealing Blaine Tyler's gun inside a gas station last week and fatally shooting him after Tyler chased Smith inside the store.
    Tyler, a customer at the BP station, was killed about 8:15 p.m. Friday, Nov. 25, inside the store. According to court papers, Smith and Hamiel arrived at the BP together on a single scooter and followed Tyler into the store.
    Did Tyler chase Smith inside or did Smith follow Tyler inside???

    "The suspects walk in and one immediately reached for Mr. Tyler's gun," Johnson said. Tyler did not draw his weapon.
    Now Smith walked in at some point after Tyler had already entered.

    Still not sure why Tyler didn't draw and fire at the moment some thug tries to steal his holstered firearm.
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